We’ve actually been researching options for about 5 years now. We’ve just gotten around to this one now. Pretty much all of them have both serious good points and serious bad points.
So, thanks everyone for your input, both pro and con, and if you have anything to add to the nuts and bolts end please do so. I would prefer to make a fully informed choice about this option (and all the others).
My first thought was to echo Jonny_LA and Lancia’s concerns, my grandparents lived 1-2 miles out of town with their own well, septic, etc but with grid power until they got too old (80ish) to handle the maintenance then moved back into town. Sounds like you have considered that part. So, going on to the practical considerations:
My mother, step sisters, and many cousins do live with grid power but with a well, septic and the propane truck coming by once/twice a year (or haul a couple of 33lb tanks into town to fill up as I did just for niece last week). I don’t consider that off grid, just standard rural living. My only truly “off-grid” experience is in vacation cabins or living in a trailer for a hunting or road trip. Longest was for about a month, in December, in Utah. I have also spent a lot of time dreaming of moving to my own place way out of town so have thought about the problems.
Hauling enough water to drink/cook is no problem. Hauling enough to flush toilets, bathe, or do laundry is very hard. If you can get a well (which sounds likely based on your description) that is the way to go. A good well is safe to drink without any extra treatment. Here in the desert I have considered catching rainwater from the roof and using a cistern, but that is more trouble than a well.
If you don’t have grid power, you just don’t have energy like those of us in the modern world are used to. You can live that way, you just need to adjust. I recently took my current energy usage (all electric house) and estimated enough solar to keep the same usage with enough battery for 3 winter days and it priced out around $76k. It scales roughly linearly with usage, so the key is to get energy usage down.
I would go with solar/wind with a battery bank. Maybe a backup gas/propane generator. How big to make it will depend on what ends up needing to be electric. I would make it as little as possible. Use 12V DC trailer/RV appliances and lights. This cuts out the inefficiencies of the inverter and can run straight off battery power. You can watch TV, charge a cell phone, use a laptop, read a book or run a propane heater. The same heater that can keep a 50-foot poorly insulated/leaky trailer comfortable should have no trouble keeping a small, well insulated house warm.
Things in my trailer living that needed the 120V power were the air conditioner and microwave oven. Used a propane refrigerator. We always went into town to do laundry, but I would expect a washer to also need 120V. Skip the dryer if the climate at all allows it (a clothesline in the living room near the wood stove drys things fast).
Air conditioning is a luxury, winter heat is a necessity. People lived all over the world before air conditioners but only moved out of the tropics after mastering use of fire. Insulation and passive solar will be needed for winter, and good ventilation for summer. Pellet stoves do work, they are more convenient than wood stoves, but have the same ash problems as wood stove and stops when the power goes out. A trailer/RV propane heater would be easiest, but also stops when the power goes out. I would consider a wood stove a requirement, even if it is only used as a backup. I’m a bit younger than you and still vigorous enough to cut/split/stack it myself but can see they day rapidly approaching when that will no longer be true. Just pay somebody to do those parts for you. If it is only backup a wood pile will last a long time.
Now, going from experience to just what I’ve read/planned/dreamed about. The key to keeping energy use down is insulation. I like the idea of straw bale construction, but it is more DIY than contractor. Also may not be appropriate in a damp climate. Other methods I’ve looked into are Structural Insulated Panels or Insulated Concrete Forms. Check if any builders in your area are familiar with these.
Have a single “wet wall” where all of the plumbing for both kitchen and bathroom are together. Kitchen on one side, bathroom on the other. Make sure it is an interior wall so it doesn’t freeze.
Spend the extra on windows with multiple panes and IR coatings. Cut my heating bill in half going from 1940’s windows to modern. Design in passive solar heating from the start. Have eaves long enough to shade the south facing windows in summer, but short enough to shine in the winter. I’ve long wanted to try this kind of passive solar heat panel: The Zen of Passive Solar Heating Panel Design (I’m a DIY kind of guy).
Electric wise, run two sets of power lines. Both the 12V DC and a 120V AC line. If the fridge is propane, have an off switch on the inverter so it is only on when you need it. The standard for 12V plugs is the “cigarette lighter” round type. Have one of these at the outlets along with the standard 120V plugs.
Make sure the well pump is 12V so it works when the 120V is off. A standard thing to have is a pressure vessel so the pump doesn’t need to run to get water pressure. It is a big tank with an airspace at the top, keeps pressure on the system so just opening a faucet doesn’t make the pump run.
Oh, yes - at my prior residence when the power was out the well was out and flushing the toilet might wind up requiring some forethought. You get one (1) free flush. That’s it. After that…
If the power went out during a store we’d put buckets out to catch the rain for toilet flushing until the power came back on. Or load buckets into the pickup and dip it out of the local drainage ditch. Knock politely on the door of a business that still had power on. Not a lot of fun. Not fun at all, but the next time I’m depending on a well I’m going to keep in mind a spare few gallons for that sort of thing.
You also discover that you don’t feel quite the same need to flush after pee. You do need to flush poo.
There are actually now manufacturers of pre-made stawbale panels - which have the advantage over DIY of a much more consistently made and better made that what you’ll do as a beginner - and more businesses that are willing to build with them. We’ve heard of your other suggestions, too and are looking at them as well.
Yeah, those of us in the group who have lived on well water have experience with that, too.
Yeah, it’s not been a problem for us, be we rarely lose power for more than 5 hours.
We do have a stream in our yard that runs year round. It’s tiny like 2 feet wide, but it does run year round (it comes out of a spring about 200 feet behind our house). I would have to break ice in winter, but I can get water if things get to be a problem.
The stream combines with the other things that are required for living. We won’t freeze to death, and we have water and a pantry with at least enough to last a few weeks. It would not be fun though.
There was an episode of Homestead Rescue featuring a straw bale house, but I don’t remember it.
I doo remember an episode where a family lived in the House of 30,000 tires [NB: Lots of skippable ads]. My first thought upon seeing the episode was ‘You’re doing it wrong!’ The tires were baled, and the bales were used as building materials. The way I’d do it would be to get a buttload of tires, of similar size; and pack them with dirt, making each tire a large, round ‘brick’. I’d stack the ‘tire bricks’ as if I was using traditional building materials, and then do the wattle. Bales of compressed tires? Seems iffy to me.
Oddly enough, I skied with a Lloyd’s insurance adjuster yesterday, and he concurred that without year-round access the property would be very difficult to insure. I’ll also add that snowmobiling for fun is fun, snowmobiling because you have to SUCKS.
How is “access” defined for insurance purposes?
Basically that fire or EMS can drive to the house year-round (not counting acts of Og like downed trees). The off-grid house we built was occupied by a couple with small children, and was mostly concrete, steel and hardwoods. The kid took a digger down the stairs at Christmas and they called 911–“Meet us at the highway” (the owner had a snowcat as well as sleds). “No, you have to send a helicopter!” It was night time. The kid was ok, the marriage not so much.
I’m 70 with a heart condition and I second this. I’m not currently supposed to split wood; but I can still move it around just fine – I just take smaller armloads per trip. Dealing with the wood stove is not a burden.
What I’ll be able to do when I’m 90, if I make it that far, is less clear – but if I’m unable to manage the wood stove, there’ll also be a batch of other things I can’t manage. If I can’t empty out the wood ashes, I won’t be able to handle the cat pans, either; or probably able to get myself in and out of the bath.
It’s certainly true that lots of people don’t want to deal with a wood stove in old age – or when young, for that matter. But if somebody else is cutting and splitting the wood, it’s not all that strenuous a job.
Yup. My power went down for about five hours today; and about six last week. No problem. Put more wood on the stove, move that pan I was cooking brunch in over there from the electric stove.
I like having the grid electric; but I’d feel a whole lot more at risk living here if I didn’t have the wood stove.
Talk to the neighbors; and talk to local insurance companies. There may be a particular company in that area that insures such places, even if many companies won’t. May affect the rates, of course.
They’re going to also want to know how far you are from various water sources – nearest pond the fire department could stick a hose in? that sort of thing. Unless you wind up with an entirely astonishing house well, it won’t produce enough water for a fire truck.
What does that mean?
I took it to mean the kid took a header.
Yes, moderate head injury on the concrete and steel stairs, 5 miles up a snowmobile trail from the highway.
A digger is a fall, usually on your head or face.
Thank you. I’m not familiar with that slang term and was trying to imagine taking a bulldozer down the stairs.
Or a wombat . . .
Or a dermatophyte:
I like the wombat better.
That’s an Earthship, or a house using the same theory. I posted about them earlier.
I enjoy that show quite a bit but I wonder how accurate some of it is.
Misty was doing a project where she used hay to build mounts that she used as bedding for plants. Mrs. L tried that and the hay started sprouting. Huh?
In another episode, they used a big timber to put under the foundation. Um, green wood can warp, bend, shrink, etc. as it dries. It worked when he installed it but will it be a permanent solution? And they mill their own (green) lumber that way, AFAICT. Maybe that’s fine in Alaska?
Plus of course he’s out there with heavy equipment not necessarily accessible or affordable to others. In the early seasons I liked how they recycled what they had on site, making the solution essentially “free” if you didn’t count labor. In later seasons they seemed to get more things donated. That’s fine but of course it doesn’t show a skill you could use to help yourself etc.
I’ve also started to question how much help they bring along. In early seasons it seemed like just Marty, Misty, and Matt working, but then later it seemed like they had additional hands working. Again, that’s fine to bring in help but it seemed misleading, as if just these three could accomplish that much in such a short time.
I guess if they’re truly off grid maybe building codes don’t apply. That can save money. But then the codes are often there for a safety issue. Was that at issue when Marty’s own home burned to the ground?
Was Misty using straw or hay? They’re not the same thing. Hay’s going to be full of seeds. Straw – good straw, anyway – won’t be seedy.
(That said, I suspect just about any show on TV is going to be unrealistic in multiple ways.)