Tense situation or more tense situation?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

This is a question that has been bugging me for quite a while and my husband finally told me to put it to the Teeming Millions.

What should you do when someone that you work with (alongside of, actually) says things that you find offensive/don’t agree with? I don’t mean harassing things like, “Gee, your boobs look terrific!” I mean, they try to engage you in conversations about black people while referring to them as “those people” or talk about homosexuals as “those fags” etc.

Do you just not encourage them (not laugh at their snide comments) and say nothing to avoid causing a situation? After all, it is just a conversation with a co-worker whose I.Q. is roughly equivelent to your pants size and really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things so why stir up trouble? They might never say anything like it again.

On the other hand, they might just take your silence as agreement and continue to include you in these discussions. To avoid this, should you say, “Excuse me, but I don’t share your views and I would appreciate your not using that terminology around me,” and then deal with the tension that arises from you saying something? That tension is going to be there for a good, long while. After all, these aren’t people who would “understand” your position–they obviously don’t think enough to “test the waters” before spewing their hateful speech.

This is happening to me at work (and to my husband as well.) His problem is that a co-worker is attempting to engage him in conversation that basically boils down to “Why don’t those uppity Negroes just take what we allow them to have and be happy with it?” My husband does not agree with this ridiculous “thinking” at all. However, he is a really nice guy who everyone feels they can talk to. If he were to say something, other people may be afraid to speak freely with him for fear that he doesn’t happen to agree with their viewpoints either.

I, on the other hand, am facing several different people in my department who have all manner of prejudices. I’ve got one woman who regularly throws around terms like “chink” and “dyke.” I’ve got another woman referring to the “coloreds” coming to the hospital (she is not 60+ years old either–she is in her thirties.) Then I’ve got the irritating Fundies in the office (I have spoken of them before) who go through our patient lists looking for anyone there for treatment for “Infectious Disease” (which BTW, does not always mean AIDS, it also means Hepatitis, TB, viral meningitis, etc.) so they can spend hours condemning them and saying, “Well, all this suffering is what they get for leading a sinful life.” They also go through and look at all the OB patients who are not having babies and talk about “those baby-killing whores” because they assume they are having D&E procedures performed. These things are really starting to get to me. Like I said, it isn’t just one person, it is several. Aside from these certain views, these people (most) are easy to get along with. That is why I have been hesitant to say anything up until now. I don’t want to be ostracized as the “ultra-sensitive” one. I want to say something but I don’t know what.

Help!

(Sorry so long!)

“You don’t have insurance? Well, just have a seat and someone will be with you after you die.” --Yes, another quality sig custom created by Wally!

A Jesusfied sig: Next time I covet thine opinion, I’ll ask for it!

2

Wait, they go through CONFIDENTIAL patient files for no reason other than to pry? Um…that has malpractice written all over it.

My office is located directly across the hall from a function room, kind of like a very small convention room. We have the understanding with the kitchen staff that when these groups are done, we are free to scavenge,and see if they left cake or soda or something. Every Wednesday there is a group of people who come in, and tend to take what they don’t eat with them. This causes quite a bit of disention among my department, as people feel we’re intitled to that food. (we have to smell them cooking it all day, it’s not fair to yank it away from us…yada yada.) For whatever reason, there are is a large number of Indian (from India) people in that department, and a coworker had taken to referring to them as “The Pakistanies.” After hearing that for the 14th THOUSAND time, I calmly told her that she should be careful who she says that around, that if an Indian hears that someone is calling them a Pakistani, that is increadibly offensive to them. She said she didn’t care who heard her, and I told her I wished she wouldn’t label people by their race. That pissed her off royally, she got all uppity, and was all “I can say what I want, I am not saying anything BAD about them, yada yada yada.” But it is now commonly understood in the department that you do NOT say those things around me.

If you and your husband call those people on their behavior, THEY will be embarrassed, not you. Their embarrasment may manifest itself badly at first, but they will understand quickly that you do not find that kind of talk appropriate in general, and especially at work. I’ve also spoken up when people in the office make anti-gay remarks, like “Did you see that shirt Gene is wearing today? Pink. Jesus. What kind of a queer is he?” I loudly exclaimed, in a semi-sarcastic voice “Not that there’s anything wrong with that, RIGHT?” They may continue to be bigots, but I don’t have to hear it anymore.

3

I have this same problem where I work. I am in utter shock that people make racist/homophobic/sexist comments STILL!!!
I have a couple reactions that I use:

  1. I nicely say stuff like, “I don’t think that’s an accurate statement” or “I’ve never experienced that with whatever group their talking about” These comments don’t attack their beliefs, but are really my attempt at gentle reminders that the speaker is completely wrong.
  2. Give them a really dirty or mean/bewildered looks. Look at the speaker in a completely dumbfounded way.
    or 3) Walk away.

People still occasionally say stuff to me, but not nearly as much. I have not experienced people avoiding me or anything like that. They just think I’m weird - oh well.

I don’t think that people’s reactions to your comments will really be embarassment. The people who work here are not at all shameful of thinking those thoughts. They’ve been brought up in hateful households and communities and they think that what they believe is the norm (and it is, where they’ve come from). They think other people are just “bleeding heart liberals” who are just trying to be PC. They will probably believe that deep down, you know they’re right, but you’ve been brainwashed by the liberal media to spout the party line.
I doubt they’ll be hostile to you…they’ll just think you’re misguided.

4

EvilB,

Shame on them! Drag it out into the bright daylight! Say what you are feeling to these folk in a face-to-face in front of some other people, so they will be forced to admit their prejudice (or in the one case - their nosy gossip) to themselves an others. Or they will deny it loudly, and know not to say such things around you anymore.

You have a right to be sick and tired of it. How long have you worked there? Six years or better, isn’t it? Regardless of where you are in seniority, you tell those nasty old biddies where it’s at.

Fight the ignorance around you, one day at a time. It will take a lot of patience, but it’s better than putting up with it continuously.

5

For the co-worker who insists on engaging me while putting down some group, I have usually found that I can get them to leave me alone by being very polite, but never agreeing with them.

“Them coloreds is all thieves.”

“Every time I’ve been ripped off it was by some white guy.”

“Why do those Jews insist that we can’t have Santa in the school for the kids.”

“None of the school board members who voted for that are Jewish and the people in the group that requested that rule aren’t Jewish. I don’t think the decision had anything to do with Jewish people.”

After a while, they get bored and leave me alone. I never bother to challenge them head-to-head. I simply deflect their comments while refusing to let their comments stand as true.

Your snooping church ladies are a bit different. I’d avoid them when possible and report any actual company rules that they violated to HR. (Document the report on paper or e-mail so that if it blows up no one can claim that you said more or less than you did.) You might also decorate your area with a cross-stitch or nicely decorated sign with such quotes as “Judge not, lest you be judged.” and “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

Tom~

6

Tom has described the best way to handle those comments…after all, you are not likely to change such a person’s mind by a direct confrontation. Better to outwit him - even though it is like fighting an unarmed man.

By the way - question for Beth

Is it offensive to say “your boobs look terrific”?

I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

7

Be honest with them. People are to afraid to slap others in the face with reality, mostly because people have a problem dealing with reality. Let me give a few RL examples I’ve had to do this in the past:
Coworker:
I’m sick and tired of all the damn blacks living off welfare and buying drugs with their unemployment checks.

The Reality Slap:
Let’s go talk to John about that, maybe he has some insight into helping you solve the problems of his racial group.(John is a Black Vice President at our company)

Coworker:
Camel Jockeys…mutter…all they do is cause riots and have their women pop out terrorists!

The Reality Slap:
Funny, I recall it being an American that committed the first terrorist act on US soil and I’m not remembering the last time I noticed an Arab riding a camel to work!

Management Coworker:
We got this nigger out in the shop, dumb boy thinks he’s going to make journeyman by next Spring!

The Reality Slap:
And is something going to keep him from doing that? I mean I’d hate to think his supervisor was a racist!
If you talk to these people in a way that makes them realize the absolute stupidity in what they are saying, one of two things will happen.

1. They will begin to realize you don’t want to hear their prejudice comments, and you won’t hear them anymore.

2. They will apologize realizing that your unwillingness to “fit in” to their nonsensical monologue renders you a threat to their job…congratulations, you now have them avoid you or kissing your ass.
People cannot handle the truth about themselves…if you put that truth in their face, even in the sensitive work world, they “WILL” back off, if they don’t, even if they are above you, immediately report their behavior to HR. Companies in today’s world cannot afford the legal battles that stem from discrimination and they will act. Also, gather proof in the form of a recording or email before reporting the person…otherwise it could backfire.

Regardless, your concious is clear, and you will be respected for your indifference to hostile, misguided slurs!

-SS :smiley:

Join the “Free SkySlash From His Ego” Movement Today!!! Visit your local chapter office for details!

8

How about when it is NOT at work? That’s what gets me. I have no problem letting people know that their behavior is unacceptable for a work place, but…

We were staying with friends in Florida on vacation. My friend’s mom has been dating this guy who is a redneck through and through for 2 years. He came home, and announced: “Damn, I worked harder than a fucking nigger. OOPS. I mean I worked harder than a nigger.” Now, I visibly stiffened, and my clenched my jaw, but I was in his house, so I didn’t feel comfortable saying “Um, how is a sexual obscentity less acceptable than a racial one?”. Any suggestions on dealing with bigots in that sense?

9

When a similar thing happened to me, it caught me so off guard I also was dumbstruck. I fell silent like yourself. I thought about the same concerns you have for a day, but I determined that I would remain cooly but still kindly silent. If pressed, my next question would be a polite and soft spoken, 'Do you voice these views before your minister or your children, I’m just curious?" I never had to ask it, but I would have if I’d have been pressed and I would have followed with an inquiry into how the minister reconciled this with ‘Judgement be MINE sayeth the Lord’

It’s shocking to come face to face with ignorance and bigotry.

Wisdom is the boobie prize,they give you when you’ve been --unwise!

10

SR–My two cents is that confronting people in their homes is more of a sensitive issue than it is at work. While on the job I am not at all reluctant to express my indignance when coworkers make their enlightening comments about “blacks” “jews” or “orientals”. Like you, I have found that people tend to shut up and go away if you call them on it.

But last fall I went to a wedding as my SO’s date. Her whole family was there and I was made very welcome, but I was still conscious of being an outsider. Anyway, her uncle launched into an alarmingly racist line of conversation, and as I sat by silently the whole family chimed right in. Despite the fact that I was uncomfortable, I didn’t feel I had the right to assert my views, being a guest and all. I left the room instead, which is what I usually do in those situations.

I don’t respect anybody’s right to be a bigot, but I also don’t think I have the right to disrupt other people’s family lives.

Your situation might be different, though. It sounds like you have more of a relationship with the person in question, and might have a bit more of a foothold in a confrontation.

Ignorant since 1972

11

Evilbeth, I feel for you, I really do. I’ve been in your exact situation more times than I care to think of, the world being the imperfect place that it is, and FWIW, here are my own personal guidelines.

[ul][li]Try to remember that it’s not necessarily your job to educate the whole bigoted, prejudiced, homophobic, illiterate, nose-pickin’, fart-lightin’ deeply stupid, non-politically correct world.[/li][li]If you feel you must attempt to educate, pick battles you can win. Don’t try to re-argue the entire case for homosexual rights, right there in the Xerox room while you’re waiting your turn. Basically, anything involving religion, politics, or sex will take more “educating” than you will ever be able to provide in a 20-second snippet of conversation in the hallway, or even 20 minutes at lunchtime.[/li][li]However, if the subject at hand is deeply personal (she’s made a snide remark about people in wheelchairs demanding special parking spaces, and your sister happens to be in a wheelchair and needs those parking spaces), you are of course entitled, nay, OBLIGATED to call her on it. Be short and to the point; don’t be insulting, just instructing.[/li][li]Also, if you just can’t stand it anymore, listening to her yammer on about “homos”, you may politely but firmly call her on it. But don’t bring up “homosexual rights”. Focus instead on the fact that she is making you uncomfortable, and call her on THAT. Say, “Excuse me, but it really makes me uncomfortable to hear you talk like that, and I’d rather you didn’t.” Now the ball is in her court; she can either shut up, or she can decide to take up the cudgels against “homos”. If she says, “Geez, what’s YOUR problem?” just smile and shrug and say, “I dunno, it just bothers me. Let’s talk about something else, OK?”[/li][li]That said, if someone really gets in your face about something (it’s the millionth time she’s made a snotty remark about people in wheelchairs, even though you’ve called her on it before,) then you can do one of two things: you can learn to ignore it (which is what will actually be the best thing for you and your stress levels), or you can invite her to meet you out behind the gym and thrash it out, man to man. :rolleyes: I suggest you do not try this in the office, because office managers tend to make notes in personnel files, and they read those notes when it comes time for promotions and raises. “Blessed are the peacemakers…”, eh?[/ul][/li]
Also, bear in mind that some male office managers and junior executives (if you should be so blessed :rolleyes :), and doctors, too, unfortunately still tend to dismiss all disagreements between female co-workers as “catfights” and blame it on “that time of the month”, 40 years of women’s lib and consciousness-raising notwithstanding. So, by avoiding open conflict with your female co-workers (by which I mean a screaming argument in the coffee room), you will actually be furthering the cause of female office workers everywhere.

When it comes right down it, EB, the world is just full of–now, what’s that special word that Wally uses?–oh, yes, now I remember…

PUTZES. :slight_smile:

“Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast!” - the White Queen

12

Thank you, everyone, for your replies!

I just want to point out a few things. First off, our office is very small. Very small. My guest bedroom is bigger. And we (because of the nature of our job) do not get to leave our little space except to pee or eat. So, I cannot walk away from these people.

Second, they are not getting into personal, confidential files to access this info. To be able to give out patient conditions over the phone (part of our job) we have printouts of all patients, their sex, their condition, and the reason they are there. So they are not actually breaking any rules when looking at the Infectious Disease patients.

All of the individuals I mentioned have been employed at the hospital for longer than me (nope, no hope for advancement–it is that crappy a job!) but there is no seniority.

However, there is a larger problem that I didn’t mention here. These people do not like me in the first place which makes working side-by-side in such a small area all the more difficult. Everyone has a fake smile and a false compassion for everyone else. Why do they not like me? I have mentioned this in threads previously but I will give a short explanation of it here. They, as I mentioned previously, are Fundamentalists. The easiest explanation for my spiritual beliefs is that I am Wiccan. (It is much more involved but I just use that label for convenience sake.) They think this means I am a Satanic, baby-killing, blood-drinking, human-sacrificing Godless heathen. And they have said as much. Not to my face of course, because in person we all get along. They have, however, indicated in writing (to me) as much along with the assertion that it was people like me that caused the shootings at Columbine (I don’t know either.) Anyway, this adds to the original problem. In a situation where I feel that I have to walk on eggshells anyway, causing a scene over terminology is a risky step.

Now, does anyone have any further advice based on this new info?

(And don’t tell me to talk to my boss. He wants to be everybody’s pal and no one’s boss. He always says, “I’ll check into it.” or “Well, you just be the bigger person and they’ll stop.” Any correspondence over my boss’s head just gets rerouted back to him to deal with. Yeah, I know, I need to get another job…)

BTW, yes, I am going for the Whiner-of-the-Year prize! How did you know?

“You don’t have insurance? Well, just have a seat and someone will be with you after you die.” --Yes, another quality sig custom created by Wally!

A Jesusfied sig: Next time I covet thine opinion, I’ll ask for it!

13

Well, normally I am very reserved about expressing my opinion, but I think this is a great topic, so here goes.

If you ever hear something that offends you, at work or otherwise, you should say something. You should ask that person not to involve you in conversations that spout such bullshit (phrase it more politely, especially @ work) and let them know that you don’t want to here that kind of crap out of them or anyone.

There is absolutely no need for you to have to tolerate the bigoted pontifications of some asshole, no matter where you are.

Likewise, don’t go sticking your opinion in their face either; you know, live and let live, etc.
I work with these two people I cannot stand. Most of the time the ignore tactic works, as they are not really rude, just annoying.
The first guy is always rolling over to me and telling me the most pointless shit I have ever heard in my life. Example:

“This one time, I went camping, and there was a stream there, and the water was really cold. It looked refreshing, but it was really, really cold.”

Huh?

And the other lady is this religious nutbar. There is nothing wrong with being religious, but constantly quoting scripture and preaching the gospel to people who frankly don’t want to hear it is just plain aggravating. Example:

What she says all day long:
“You all really should consider the love that jesus has for you. The things you do will come back to you, for vengeance is mine, sayeth the lord. Remember, whosoever believeth in me shall not perish, but have everlasting life. Jesus loves all of us sinners, but we need to accept his love…”

What I hear:
“blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah jesus blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah jesus blah blah blah blah blah blah blah…”

So rest assured, some folks just feel the need to run their mouths, it’s not always openly reprehensible(sp?).

But you need to tell these people, in your own words, this:
“Don’t take this personally, but shut your ass, I don’t want to hear your shit.”

Then forget about them.

“Winners never quit and quitters never win, but those who never win and never quit are idiots.”

14

Golly, Evilbeth, it’s worse than I thought. :frowning: You truly have a tough row to hoe and I feel for you.

Is there any possibility of getting a different job? Because I have been in situations with Fightin’ Fundies like you describe, and you must realize (I want to MAKE you realize, sweetie) that they really, truly, seriously believe that you are a tool of the Devil, an evil demon personified sitting right next to them in that tiny cubicle. Geez.

Every time you blow your nose, they’re watching to see if you mutter a spell. (Seriously. :rolleyes :slight_smile: Needless to say, none of them will leave their pocketbooks where you can get at them; you might “do something” to them, like put a tiny voodoo doll in them. (You think I’m making this up?) If you sit out in your car for a few minutes before you come in to work, they’re scared to death you’re out there putting hexes on them . I bet there’s at least one of them who says a silent prayer to Jesus for protection from the Evil One before she walks in through the front door at 9:00 a.m.

And you don’t even want to think about what goes through their heads when they use the restroom right after you. (I need a smilie for “Mr. Yuck”)

I’m sorry this sounds so negative, but I don’t see how the situation can possibly get any better. It’s like having the worst gay-basher in the world sitting next to somebody who’s flagrantly gay, with the extra added bonus of unpleasant words and difficult concepts like “Sin” and “Hell” and “Evil” and “Damnation” and “Satan” being thrown around.

You’re never in a million years going to be able to convince them that you have a right to your opinions, no matter what your constitutional rights may be, because as they see it, if THEY can change YOUR mind, they not only have the satisfaction of winning an argument, they will also be saving your immortal soul! into the bargain. It’s awfully hard to argue with someone who only wants “what’s best for you,” especially if that person is convinced that the Almighty God Himself commanded it.

You’re lucky if they’re even barely civil to you. Find another job, is my advice.

:frowning:

“Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast!” - the White Queen

15

I suppose you can always use their ignorance against them. Next time someone speaks against whoever, proclaim: Our new coven leader is {insert category}! You wouldn’t believe what happened to the last person who used that phrase!

After all, if your boss just wants a quiet life, he’s going to brush off their complaints the way he brushes off yours. And if you get fired, can you picture the discrimination suit? I was fired because my co-worker can’t function because she’s persuaded herself I put a curse on her

Seriously, you’re in a no-win situation here. If you can’t learn to insert white noise (so to speak) in your head when the rambling starts, better find another job.

16

“Are you wearing a watch? Could you tell me what century this is?”

“I’m afraid that I don’t know how to respond intelligently to that comment.”

and the old standby:

“Annnnnnnyyyywaaay…”

The first one I said after a co-worker (actually a former employee, a higher up salesperson) was talking about coon hunting and remarked that he wasn’t talking about raccoons. That gave me the cold shivers.

I’m a big fan of using sarcasm. You don’t get pegged as being overly sensitive and it throws it back at them. However, most people don’t appreciate that.

17

Gee, evilbeth, your boobs look terrific!

Sorry. I tried not to do it. I really tried.

“I’ll tell him but I don’t think he’ll be very keen. He’s already got one, you see!”

18

Quote:

Focus instead on the fact that she is making you uncomfortable, and call her on THAT. Say, “Excuse me, but it really makes me uncomfortable to hear you talk like that, and I’d rather you didn’t.” Now the ball is in her court; she can either shut up, or she can decide to take up the cudgels against “homos”. If she says, “Geez, what’s YOUR problem?” just smile and shrug and say, “I dunno, it just bothers me. Let’s talk about something else, OK?”

Unquote

Notthemama, that is the very best advice I have heard in a long time… I will make a note of it.

I have a friend who is pretty bad in this respect and it is useless to try to reason or argue with him but when he goes into one of his tirades against whatever group it is that day I will smile and make remarks like “you do realize that when you speak like that most people will take you for a fool?” (I am not telling him what I think, I am just trying to"be helpful)

19

Thanks! That’s what I’ve been fishing for all along! :wink:

“You don’t have insurance? Well, just have a seat and someone will be with you after you die.” --Yes, another quality sig custom created by Wally!

A Jesusfied sig: Next time I covet thine opinion, I’ll ask for it!

20

Thanks everyone for all your help! Notthemama, that really is good advice and I thank you for being so understanding. However, I must admit that some days I really get off on doing things to bug them! I know that’s horrible and I don’t really have any room to complain about them if I do that but sometimes it just goes so far that absurdity is called for! There are several other pagans that work around my area so most of the time I just spend my time with them. (Hardly anyone knows they are pagan–religion seems to only be a big concern in my department–probably because it is so small (8 people) and 5 of them are Fundies.) Hmm…maybe I should post something asking for clever ways to get back at them! That would be extremely immature and childish…yet, so fun!

“You don’t have insurance? Well, just have a seat and someone will be with you after you die.” --Yes, another quality sig custom created by Wally!

A Jesusfied sig: Next time I covet thine opinion, I’ll ask for it!