Terror at 2:00 AM - Don't read if you're depressed

Well, it has happened again, for the…fourth night in a row? I have a terrible nightmare, and then wake up, then go into a full blown panic attack with the screaming, crying, shaking, and other physical symptoms too pathetic to catalogue. Why?

Simple. Oblivion.

I have been having these panic attacks, in one form or another, since I was 11. They were not very common, maybe happening on the order of once a year, and not being very bad. They have, sadly, been increasing in frequency and strength with each passing year, as death draws closer.

For that is what they involve. The inevitability of death, which I see in my belief system as being nothing but oblivion. A permanent, final extinguishing of me, forever and ever. I will close my eyes one day, and the Universe will end. And it is going to happen, and there is nothing I can do to stop it. Even if was immortal, the universe will eventually run down, taking me with it. There’s no escape.

I wish I believed in God, any God. But I don’t. My heart is dead to any God. I was never raised religiously, not at all, and I only had a vague feeling that there might be “someone or something” out there, a divine presence. But one night, long ago, when I was being brutally violated, I screamed up to the night sky to “God”, to help me, to stop what was happening. But no one was there, just the cold, silent, mocking Universe. I’ve since tried to believe, tried and tried, but there is nothing inside of me. Christians and others tell me I’m “trying too hard”, or “by asking these questions, God is working to turn your heart”, and so forth. Well…God is going to have work faster, or I might not make it.

These attacks bother me of late for two reasons (besides the subject matter, which of course paralyzes me). First, they are becoming more and more frequent. I’ve never had a run of four days in a row, and I am ragged from them. Second, the physical response to the fear makes my heart pound until I think it will burst, makes me feel profoundly ill. Tonight’s was the worst ever, and my hands are still shaking, my heart still pounding hard, even 20 minutes or so after it has “ended”. I have an odd, very unpleasant tingling feeling all over my body that is definitely new, and has me very worried - as if my entire body was numb and partially asleep, and trying to wake up. I fear that someday the panic attack itself will bring on the end, and if things get much worse I can see that as being very likely.

I’ve sought, and received, professional help for this. The problem is twofold - first, there is no way I can convince myself or lie to myself that “it’s going to be A-OK”, or “there’s nothing you can do about it, so just don’t worry”. I don’t honestly understand how someone can look on total, absolute oblivion and say “Eh. I won’t know about it, so why should I care?” It is an alien thought to me, and no amount of conseling is going to change that. Second - until recently the attacks were still random, and far between. So I could take anti-anxiety medication all the time for the 0.01% of the time that I have the attacks.

You know what’s really sad? About 5 years ago I stopped being able to be interested in cosmology and space exploration, because the subject reminds me of the universe, and death, etc, etc. This is really sad, when I’m such a science maven, that I have to not even think about something like that. History is also being lost to me, as it is very hard for me to read biographies and historical works without thinking “they’re gone…forever. They ceased to exist.” Thermodynamics is going as well, as every mention of entropy…well, you get the picture. I have noticed that I am starting to try to distract myself with mundane and pointless things, to try and keep my mind from wandering back to you-know-what.

Anyhow - why is this in MPSIMS? Simple - because life, my life, all life, is mundane and pointless. It just doesn’t matter. In less than 40, 50 years it will cease to exist for me - forever. It’s safe to say in 100 years no one reading this post will exist anymore. We will all be equally gone, winked out of existance like a firefly that shone once and died.

Well, I thought writing this would help, and it did at first, but it ended up triggering another attack. Since it seems I am done, I may as well post it. Maybe someone will have some divinely-inspired wisdom that will save me, but I fear not. I’m going to stay up the rest of the night watching TV (the opiate of the masses, and myself in this instance) to keep myself from panicing again, until I finally become too tired to go on and fall asleep in my chair. Hopefully, I won’t have another nightmare. They are so terrifying.

this sounds like something i’d say when i’m depressed… i understand the feeling. but, when i’m depressed, i have my parents behind me, bearing me up again (thanks, mom). don’t you have anyone? i’m not trying to be rude or anything, but if you have a panic attack again, think of me, and don’t be afraid. nothing bad can endure for long; it must always be forced away by good. i’m not saying all that stuff about how the teeniest bit of good can drive away all evil alone, but if the teeniest bit of good has someone to back it up, then evil will not be unconquerable. i’m willing to be the person to back you up. so there.

I do have someone very, very special and loving to me. She would try to comfort me in person, but she is 4343 miles away from me. The attacks put me in an irrational state of mind. Nothing comforts me, they just have to run their course. Which takes from 1 minute to as much as 10 (like tonight).

I honestly don’t think my body can take too much more of the 10-minute variety. It’s an hour later, and I still feel sick and drained. And the Seinfeld re-run I’m watching is, unfortunately, only mildly therapeutic.

First off, here’s a great big hug Anthracite. You’re loved and respected by many folks around here, and some of us are planning to be around in a hundred years in order to reminisce. :slight_smile:

As for not being able to find solace in God-- I hear you there. I too was raised without religion, and occasionally wish I did believe in some power larger than myself, if only to have someone to cry to late at night when I was worried and scared out of my wits.

I don’t have any divinely-inspired wisdom to offer you, but I do have something mundane to share. The universe is not mocking you-- there’s no consciousness capable of doing that.
Second, go back to reading those histories, and when you catch yourself thinking ‘those people are lost and gone forever,’ make an effort to tag on ‘but their legacy still lives, because a schmuck like me is reading about them in a world they never dreamed of.’

Sleep well my favourite coal miner. And by the way, thanks for helping me understand how important the work done my grandfather and other ancestors was, since they actually did work down in the mines.

I wish there was something I could write here that would make everything OK for you, but I don’t have that talent. I can only relate what helps me when I have nightmares (which is often), that I think of it is as only your mind letting off some steam. I think of it kinda like a valve on a pressure-cooker, your mind has to vent some steam or the whole thing would blow up. Sorry if this doesn’t make any sense, but I hope it helps a little.

I’m so sorry you ahve these panicks attacks.
I know how bad it is,
because I ahve them myself,
it rips you apart.
They are luckily much better then they where earlier in my life.
I feel so with you,
I hope you’re not afraid when you get them?
because I know I was,
but then I realized they wasn’t going to hurt me
or happen anything bad when I got them
and knowing that helped me a lot.
my panick attacks are like yours
related to the fakt that one day I’ll die.
I have very ahrd to get used to that,
and I try not to think of it.
I should probably somehow try tog et used of that,
but i seem not be able to.
maybe some day I will.
And I hope you will too.
One thing that always helps me,
is to call my love, my friends
or my mother,
and if it’s possible to get company of one of them
that’s the best for me.
I’m sending youa big hug
and hope you’ll feel better soon.
Kram

I’m going to try to get some sleep myself right now. Anth, if you are still reading, I hope you can do the same. One other thing that might help is thinking of movies you have seen…go through the plot in your mind as you are going to sleep. It works for me, I kind of see the movie while I sleep. Just remember to keep it light…horror movies might be a bad choice for dreaming. :slight_smile:

I woke up with a nightmare about the same time you did! Big time panic attack!
Mine was a death one also. Only it was about a friend of mine who is dying. He came to tell me goodbye.
This has happened twice before. When my grandfather died, and when my son died. So vivid and so really I woke up crying and begging them not to leave me just as I did tonight.
So far I have smoked half a pack, drank two sodas, and mailed half the people on my e-mail list before comming to the boards.
Should have been here and hour sooner for you love. I’m sorry, but I am sure you understand how scattering this is.
I think I can head back to bed now knowing that I have to only sleep for a few more hours before I get my heathens up for school and then I start my day.
I have to call my mom and let her know about my dream since she has been taking care of this friend.
The twit should have married him years ago! He suffered a stroke that put this big strong man in a diaper and a wheel chair.
She keeps trying to get me to see him but I cannot see him like that. I want to remember him how he was, not what he was reduced to. At least when he came to me in my dream he was himself. Any other way would have made this far worse.
Sorry bout the hijack. I had no intention of hijacking, but getting it out feels a bit better.

I am in Aim and ICQ if you want to panic sometime together, and I keep odd hours so if you need me in the middle of the night chances are I will be around.

My mom never tires of telling the story about finding little Chas, age 6, shaking and crying in his bed at 2AM, unable to sleep, and when she asked what was wrong, I replied that I had read in an astronomy book that the sun was going to burn out in 5 billion years. I was incolsolable, and you can’t just tell a little kid that the sun burning out in 5billion years won’t make any difference because you’ll be dead long before that anyway. I have no recollection of this incident occurring, so that’s probably why she tells the story over and over.

I have no cure for your condition, it seems to be a spiritual crisis more than a psychological one. You don’t need to believe in god, I personally recommend you investigate buddhism, which does not require you to have faith in god or anything that disagrees with science or physics (well, at least my sect doesn’t). The buddhist cosmology is steady state, not big bang, entropy but no heat-death of the cosmos. I’m still a firm believer in variants of Steady State, the big bangers still have a lot of problems with their theories.
There is an old saying, probably inaccurately attributed to Kurt Godel, “once you’re born, the worst has already happened.” You’ve been given a life sentence on this earthly plane of existence, nothing matters except that when your sentence ends, you can look back and have no regrets, or at the least, realize you did everything you reasonably could to end with no regrets. You don’t strike me as the kind of person who has any regrets.
When I get a fatalistic mood like this, I sometimes recall this buddhist hymn from the Rockabilly sect (lyrics slightly abridged)

I wanna leave a happy memory when I go
I wanna leave something to let the whole world know
That the rock ‘n’ roll daddy has done passed on
But his bones will keep rockin’ long after I’m gone

Well when I die, buried six foot deep
With a rock ‘n’ roll record at my feet
A phonograph needle in my hand
I’m gonna rock my way right out of this land

Well, when I die don’t bury me at all
Just hang my bones up on the wall
Beneath these bones let these words be seen:
“This is the bloody gears of a rockin’ machine”

So there you go. Be one with the endless dance of life, and life will dance through you, even after you’re gone. No regrets.

Anthracite, what you describe sounds very familiar to me. I have experienced all of this, though not as profoundly as you have. I convinced myself for a long time that I was an agnostic, but now I think I have to accept my atheism. I think of death probably too much, and it scares the pants off me. I went to a funeral last month, and I walked out of there feeling sure there was no God. It was a Buddhist funeral, and when I was watching the monk speaking I was struck by the futility of the whole exercise. I had the same brief insight I’d had previously at Christian funerals, “This guy is saying all the right things, but he’s really just trying to make people feel better. It doesn’t help the poor bugger who’s gone. And I suspect the monk knows this deep down inside.” The other thing is I’ve also felt that same loss of interest in science, etc. The universe doesn’t seem full of promise now.

Sorry for such a depressing reply to your OP, Anthracite. It’s probably the last thing you need. But maybe it’ll help serve to remind you that you’re not alone in this. I’d give you a cyberhug, but I’ve sworn off those. Actually, at least oblivion won’t have those! That’s one thing in its favour. :wink:

Try to focus on the short term future. For example: the cup of tea you’re about to have; the next phone call you’re going to have with Fierra; the music you’ll listen to in the car as you drive to work; maybe a trip to somewhere nice. The things you look forward to in the near future can be pointless, or they can be profound. It doesn’t matter.

Moments of beauty are the stars in the void. Glory in them, be they pointless or profound.

Too late, kiddo – I read you’re post even though I am depressed. Well, not as badly as I was when I first started posting here. But my depression will never entirely go away. I’ve accepted that.

Anyway, this is about you. All I can say is – try to live for the moment. Every single moment, every tick of the clock is special because that’s a moment when you’re breathing, when you’re alive. I’m sorry that you can’t get into cosmology etc. as you once did – the infinite possibilities are miraculous and wonderful. But you have a full life now – from what I gather from your posts. I envy you. Your intelligence, your talents, the fact that you have found that very special person in your life.

I can’t know what is going on inside your thoughts and fears. Only you know that. But, I suggest – try to live for the now. What is to come hasn’t happened yet.

Sorry if this just sounds like drivel. Take care, Anthracite.

Wow. That’s so very similar to my experience as well, what started things off at age 11. It was upon reading that one day the sun is expected to become a red giant, and swallow the Earth and wipe it out completely. And it still is one of the things that almost will set me off. If I hadn’t had only 2 hours of sleep, it might do so now, but I’m just too tired and miserable to have the energy to panic. Maybe I should start drinking more instead.

Thank you everyone greatly for your encouragement. I’ll read this thread in more detail at work.

This post is not an attempt to trivialise your pain & suffering. Do not misunderstand it.

When I was younger, I also had a problem with recurring nightmares. My family physician suggested antihistamines or sinus tablets, & a pillow that supports my head & neck, to keep the airway open.

It’s been a long time since I had “oblivion” nightmares, because I can breath in my sleep now.

I still have anxiety, now & again, about my own mortality. That’s normal. But, try the special pillows & maybe those “Breath Right” strips for the nose. Both can be obtained at your local drugstore.

Uncovering the Secret of Life should not be anybody’s prerequisite for getting a good night’s sleep.

With Heartfelt Sympathy For A Fellow Sufferer,

your Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor. :slight_smile:

I know that this will be of no help whatsoever, but I’ve actually found that my anxieties have gotten better since I’ve stopped having any sort of formalized religious beliefs and accepted oblivion.

I was raised catholic, went to catholic school, church every sunday, the whole shebang. Christ, I was even an altar boy. Not that I was technically a true believer, it was just what was expected from me. During those times I would lie awake at night petrified that there was an afterlife. I wasn’t too worried about the whole heaven or hell thing, it was just the idea of eternity that got to me. I think it was Rita Rudner talking about the process of labor and delivery who said “I don’t even want to do anything enjoyable for 36 straight hours.” That’s kinda where I was at. Even if I went to heaven (especially the catholic view of it which sounded like you sat around forever singing hymns and telling god how great he was - if anyone shouldn’t have an inferiority complex you’d think it’d be him), the enormity of eternity just terrified me. Even if heaven were a place filled with unholy lesbian vampires and endless espressos, I gotta believe I’d be bored after a few thousand years. I never got to the panic attack stage, but there were a ton of tears and pillow huggings.

As I got older and began to truly question what I believed, I found that standard religious dogma was being replaced with existentialist doubt. This was a great comfort. I can accept that I am on this world for a limited time, and that during that time I have a personal obligation to live a life that makes sense, however I may define it. I have no problem seeing myself as a huge bag of chemical reactions that happens to think it can cook a mean omelette. If there is any worry about the future, I know that if I live a decent life, I will leave a legacy of fond memories. And in my case, I have my daughter to carry on my dreams.

The inevitablity of death really doesn’t bother me anymore. A poorly timed death would suck, I mean who wants to be remembered as the guy that died in a bizarre gardening related auto-erotic asphyxiation incident. But in terms of the finality of it, I’m okay with that. Maybe it’s because I’ve been around too many people who have been truly ill and in pain, there comes a time where quality of life matters more than length. My dream is to be a cranky old man that dies while surrounded by those that he truly loves and that love him. I would definitely go out with a smile on my face.

Hang in there Anthracite, it sounds like you’ve got a great life. Try to concentrate on enjoying the meal instead of worrying about the bill at the end.

at least my daughter tells me so. She is five and a half (don’t dare tell her she is only five). Anyway, when we lived in Thailand one of her friends, Damie, apparently was a Christian. She told my daughter that God was always watching over them. Since as a family we are areligious (my wife is a strict atheistic Buddhist, I am more like a Deist) she had never heard of God. But there are plenty of guards, they are everywhere. Our building always had a guard out front, there were probably 10 on duty at any time (labor is inexpensive), so there always was a guard looking out for her. Her five year old brain translated God into Guard. She likes the idea, she is also a bit prone to anxiety, and it makes her feel more comfortable.

Now of course, we face a bit of an ethical dilemna. Do we encourage her to seek religion, since I know she finds it comforting, even though we do not endorse it as a family value? Will belief in mythical creatures help her, and does it justify deluding children into belief of this myth?

We will probably let her make her own decisions about religion, and make sure that she makes informed choices once she is of an age where she can handle this type of reasoning. For now, we will let her believe in Guard (She has told me, “I believe in Guard. Do you believe in Guard, daddy?”)

Anthracite, feel free to believe in Guard as well if it will help you. :slight_smile: But more importantly, the things you do and the impressions you make on people whilst you reside upon this mortal coil are the things that become our individual immortality, the love you cause and foster in others. From the short time I’ve seen on the borders it is quite apparent the love and devotion you have engendered in others. Long from now you and I will not exist, at least as corporeal beings for certain, but we probably will exist, if not in memory then in deeds, feelings and actions which we have taught.

Tried it. Doesn’t work. Just left me doubly shakey. Plus hung over.

Metaphysical crises are hardest on people without a metaphysics to fall back on. My own is so haphazard as to be useless. However, I have had enough friends who have encountered enough unexplainable things to convince me that there might be something after this world and those odds are good enough to help.

In the mean time, perhaps you can do some volunteer work and have your legacy be those people whom you have helped. And Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor (doesn’t that sound like the name of a show dog? :wink: ) might have a point. I sleep on my side when I don’t want to wake in a panic.

Truly, you are in a sucky place. Mrs.Tranq’s best friend in the Navy went through such severe and frequent panic attacks that she wound up with a medical discharge. It turned out, in her case, that the issue was organic, and somewhat treatable. What can I say to you? Well maybe this bit of hope: You can avoid complete oblivion. You may die, and you may even be right about death being the end ( I don’t think so, but I’ve no proof that I’m right, either), but something of you can continue, and maybe that can be of comfort to you. What am I blathering about? Well, I’m talking about doing something that will impact people even after you’re gone. Dump some of your angst into a project that is bigger than you, something that suits your values, that will affect people’s lives for a long time to come.

I won’t presume to suggest what shape or type of work you might try, I’m quite sure you can think of a laundry list of suitable causes and projects. I will tell you, however, that for me, as long as there are homeless shelters in the city of Philadelphia, something of me (aside from my progeny) will last past my death. It’s small comfort, but maybe it’s enough?

Hi Anthracire. Hoepfully by the time you’re reading this you will feel better. I can relate to your depression, though I’ve always found the hear and now to be far more depressing than my ultimate demise. Anyway, I just wanted to suggest that you look into some form of meditation. It really does help calm mind and body, and if you can nip your panic attack in the bud, you may be able to break the cycle.

Personally, I use a basic yoga position. That is: Lie flat on your back,no pillow, arms at you side,feet together, fingers relaxed, eyes closed. Breathe slowly and deeply, from your diaphragm, holding each breathe for 2-3 seconds. Listen to your breath, and try to clear your mind of anything else. I tend to use this process as a shortcut to sleep, and about 30 long breaths usually does the trick for me.

Some visualization may also help. When I’m upset, I visualize my anger/fear/depression as a red haze filling my body. As I breathe, I imaginge the air as being cool and blue, mixing with the red and drawing it out with each exhalation until my body is filled with cool blue calm.

I know this all sounds new-agey and weird, but it has worked for me. Your mind and body are interconnected, and if you can calm your body, your mind will follow and vice versa. Maybe what I suggested will work for you, maybe not. But, I do encourage you to seek out a form that will work for you

I wish the best for you, you’ve always struck me as a unique spirit on the boards.

It’s uncanny that what you describe–the oblivion–is almost exactly what my old roommate described at the reasons behind his panic attacks. He’d wake up screaming and sometimes running. I’d have to tackle him and practically sit on him to get my arms around him and comfort him.

I participated in a rather unpleasant research study after going through that with him–I just wanted to help them advance their knowledge about panic attacks. My role was to have one induced on me via drugs. Yeow.