I don’t have one. I’m not playing your game. I’m not beholden to your autistic Tom Brady.
it doesn’t matter what he meant, or what he/they expected to happen. all that matters is what did happen.
You have some really strong opinions for someone that can’t commit to even a minor prediction on a no-stakes message board.
And to be clear, since you’re implying otherwise: I’ve only stated what I think will happen, not what I think ought to happen. Those are two completely different things.
I really don’t know. First of all, I don’t understand this area of law. Second, even OJ was found not guilty, so there’s always the potential of good lawyers being able to overcome a solid case. Third, the Trump Administration isn’t exactly known for holding corporations to account for anything. All I can say is that as a prima facie matter, the law says you can’t make misleading statements, and Musk’s statement was undeniably misleading.
Your Honor, the jury knew my client was not trustworthy when he took the stand. You can’t possibly find him guilty of perjury!
I don’t think you’re going to find much argument there. Dude really needs to just hire someone whose sole purpose is to approve his tweets before he hits submit. Like even assuming Elon is actually somehow right about the whole thing with the guy from Thailand, I don’t care, he still just needs to shut up about it.
Anyway, I got a 14-day free trial of autopilot the other day, so I’ve been using it a lot on my commute. Seems to hold the lanes pretty well, even things like S-curves, and the auto-lane change is pretty slick, where you just hit the turn signal and it’ll proceed to change lanes for you and then turn off the signal when its done. That aspect is actually pretty nice, because it allows me to spend a bit more time checking my blindspot before initiating a lane change, knowing that the autopilot is still watching the front of the car.
Seems to drift far too close for comfort to large trucks in adjacent lanes though. I think it’s just trying to maintain the middle of the lane, wheras human tendency is to give them a little more space. I imagine this behavior may improve in future versions of autopilot as the side cameras start getting utilized.
I think if my commute had a lot of stop-and-go driving, it’d be a lot more valuable to me, but since it doesn’t, i don’t think its worth the extra money at this point in development. My opinion may change over the next week as i get used to it, but right now I feel more like I’m trying to babysit a teenager with a learner’s permit - it’s more stressful, and I still get uncomfortable in that gray area where someone brakes a little too quickly in front of me, or merges suddenly, and I start hesitating in that split second, deciding whether or not I’m going to have to take control of the car.
This came up in some of the interviews with lawyers–that the SEC under Trump is being directed to look the other way on this kind of stuff. So on this point we agree; Musk may not be held accountable simply because the authorities might look away. I’m not claiming anything about whether this is right or wrong.
I don’t dispute that it was misleading; only that it was a complete bald-faced lie with zero nuance to it, and the degree to which is was deliberate and/or manipulative.
You laugh, but this kind of reasoning is a core part of defamation law. Statements which are too ridiculous to be believed are not considered libelous (see Hustler Magazine v. Falwell, where Hustler suggested that Falwell had sex with his mom in an outhouse. Hustler won.).
I don’t know if this line of reasoning translates to securities law–but I could see them making the argument.
Yeah–this is one aspect of Autopilot I like a lot. I have a lot more situational awareness because I can afford to spend more time checking my mirrors, etc. There’s always a tradeoff between checking for other cars vs. making sure you don’t rear-end someone, and Autopilot helps with this a lot.
Not sure exactly what your driving situation is like, but this feels pretty accurate in high-traffic, high-speed situations. There’s just a little too much lane changing and other chaos to be comfortable. But below a certain traffic threshold, I think it’s fantastic. I keep the following distance near the max and as long as traffic isn’t so dense that people are always cutting in, it’s pretty comfortable. My long drives are usually at night and it really cuts the perceived driving time.
I just read this blurb from here https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/08/24-hours-musk-tweet-secured-financing-mystery.html:
According to this guy, it sounds like it’s not as big of a deal as I assumed it was.
it doesn’t matter. he made public statements. Statements which investors acted upon. If those statements were untrue, then he has to answer for them.
I have strong opinions on this because I work in this industry. I don’t have any “predictions” because I’m not your personal monkey who does your bidding.
Why do you do this shit? When I said Tesla needed someone like Gwynne Shotwell to run things and stabilize operations, you harassed me left and right to identify someone who could fill that role. Why? Why was it incumbent upon me to go find someone to run Tesla?
and as far as I can tell, neither are grounded in reality.
Yes, there is no gray area regarding what he said.
His quote talks about “funding secured” just means “funding is lined up.” But it is clear in this case that funding was not lined up, even in the most charitable definitions of those words.
Because without making some kind of concrete statement, you’re just yelling from the sidelines. That’s not a conversation. It’s not even an argument.
Regarding Shotwell, as I’ve said I agree with you. Kumbaya; let’s not break our wrists jerking each other off. The thing is, I don’t think a Shotwell for Tesla exists. Shotwell was with SpaceX from the beginning. Tesla has some great long-term people but they don’t strike me as operational types. Hire someone from the outside? You’ve already mentioned that it’s probably hopeless finding people in the auto industry, and frankly it would probably be a disaster anyway. Shotwell manages to deal well with Musk and translate his whims into a viable business plan. I haven’t the slightest clue what kind of person could fit this role. If there’s no one that would work, then the entire line of argument is pointless–it’s Musk or nothing.
But I am in fact looking for your thoughts on the matter. Maybe there’s some category of people I’m missing; some type, or individual, that has a history of working well with abrasive types and running a tight ship–ideally, one related to manufacturing. Maybe I’ll agree with your analysis and maybe not, but at least it’s something to have a conversation about.
When I pressed Ravenman to clarify his claims, he responded with a couple of reasons why Musk probably wouldn’t face serious consequences. In other words, he more or less agrees with me, or at least thinks it’s a significant possibility. Great! Though it feels that it could have come out earlier in the conversation.
Half the time I don’t even know if I agree with you or not. All I’m really asking is for a bit of clarity here. Making a prediction is just another way of saying “here’s what I think will happen.” That doesn’t seem like too much to ask.
That almost sounds like a concrete statement to me. I’m claiming that Musk probably won’t face serious repercussions for his privatization tweet. If you think that’s not grounded in reality, then it seems you’re claiming that he will face repercussions. Is that right?
Thanks for the clear statement. Hopefully it won’t be too long before we find out if you’re right or the lawyer in RaftPeople’s link is right.
I realize it may be way too late for this thread, but is there any chance you guys could take your discussions of Elon Musk to his thread?
Every time this thread pops up in my New Posts list I don’t know if it’s some new news about the car or about Elon.
I draw the distinction that you lean far more to the “he didn’t do anything that bad” view than I do; and I suspect that your view is influenced by your support of Tesla’s overall mission.
I’m saying he did something very dishonest, and he should not just have a slap on the wrist, especially because of his pattern of dishonesty. Whether he will or not is something so out of my league that I can’t really make any kind of informed judgment on, because I know jack shit about how securities law works. You might as well ask me what charges some exiled war criminal might face in his home country: how the heck should I know anything about the war crime laws of some distant land? I just think the guy in this hypothetical should pay.
You know how you get annoyed when I weigh in on fanboyism? You realize you’re doing a similar thing here, right?
Yeah, we’re getting pretty far afield from actual Model 3 news. Well, I’ve mostly said my piece anyway.
CleanTechnica had an interesting articleon Model 3 production. Actually just a summary of a Financial Times article (which seems to be paywalled), which is itself a description of what a couple of traditional auto analysts saw when touring Tesla’s facilities.
Overall gist seems to be that production is looking reasonable, even in the tent. I’m not sure the headline (“25-33% the number of steps”) is really relevant because it doesn’t compare the cycle time, but overall the tone is positive. They seem to think that 8k/wk is doable with minimal changes and 10k/wk with relatively minor upgrades.
Fitting in with the few “are care dealers still playing games” threads in this forum, I logged into my Tesla account today to see that I owe them an additional $17.20. That is after being paid in full a few days ago. It’s in the taxes and fees field, but there is no itemized breakdown. It’s too low for undercoating or window etching, so it must be a “document fee”.
At an extra $17.20 per car, they only have to sell 58,000 to make another $1 million.
Uh, well, there goes the joke. I’d typed all that out, and then saw I could click on the taxes and fees field to get a breakdown. It is indeed a titling and registration fee, so something charged by the state or county. You’d think they could predict that and charge it ahead of time, as they sell lots of Teslas in Colorado.
Is there an advantage to getting the $500 Tesla Wall Charger installed as opposed to a regular old 240V dryer outlet?
Elon tweeted today that he has a headache with paint. He says in some cases, entire cars have to be rebuilt due to paint not being right. Red and white are the biggest headaches.
How do you look the other way in a lawsuit?