If I have 66, and the flop is 6 6 A, and someone ahead of me goes all in, im calling in a heartbeat since that person almost certainly has A x or at worst for you AA, putting his full house up against your four of a kind. Good odds for you.
Should have mentioned that pre-flop I’d have called whatever was bet (unless someone went all-in) and then limped along early after the flop hoping to trap someone.
In 2, he was wondering what to call an all-in bet with before the flop.
There is no quad sizes pre-flop.
In both cases, it depends. In (1), do you have players who will make a big bluff if it checks around on the flop? Do you have players who will call it down with any ace “to keep you honest”? Are there 2 of a suit out there?
In (2), it depends even more. Is it the first hand of the tournament? Are you short-stacked? Are you the big stack? If you don’t call are the blinds going to put you all in. There is simply no answer to the question “what do you call with if a player goes all in in front of you?” It entirely depends on context, and there is no scenario for which you’d say, “in general” or “on average”. It’s almost as open-ended a question as you could probably ask.
You’ll call any bet short of all in pre-flop with pocket 66? Please let me know the next time you’ll be at a poker table. I’ll make arrangements to meet you there.
First scenario I agree with the concensus that as a general rule I’d check-call until the river (I assume I’m in the BB since everyone’s limping in front of me) but since 66 isn’t that wonderful a hand against a full table I’d raise pre-flop to thin the field a bit. But Trunk is right that the other players’ betting patterns are going to influence your actions.
(sort of on-topic I was playing Saturday and had a 7 with 4 callers in an unraised BB, flop came 777, checked around, J on the turn and the guy who hit his boat put in a min bet which I called, A on the river which screwed me because he figured I had a bigger boat; i netted $1.20 with flopped quads)
Second scenario, as Trunk again correctly notes, is way too vague to give any sort of concrete answer to.
Another thing about the flopped quad 6’s is that it doesn’t just depend on what your opponents style is. It depends on what they perceive YOUR style to be.
If you’ve been pushing hands hard all night, betting and raising, and being aggressive with marginal hands, then you should bet that 66 hard.
You can’t just play by the rule, “slow play quads”. One of the best reasons for betting (or even raising) on your draws, or running a bluff from time to time, is that you protect yourself when you hit the monsters. That’s not to say you should just bluff to advertise. Advertising is merely a by-product of a failed bluff.
I almost never have a table image where I’d be worried to bet out when I flopped quads.
Good point - I should clarify that I wouldn’t call on ‘any’ bet, but my (admittedly limited) experience online has taught me that it pays in the long run to at least see a flop when holding a pocket pair, even a middling couple of sixes, assuming it doesn’t kill my stack to do so.
And you can find me tonight at a $50 or $100 NL sit-and-go on Bodog, most likely after ‘24.’
Play money? Pass, thanks. Besides as far as I know I can’t get on Bodog because I’m on a Mac. I’ve also heard a few negative things about Bodog, freezing accounts for no apparent reason and seizing winnings.
Like everything else, it depends. If you’re in early position with aggressive players to follow you, it’s usually not worth it to limp in with a small PP. You’re probably going to be raised and you’re probably not going to want to call a raise with something like pocket 33 or pocket 66. In later position or at a more passive or shorter table, sure, limp in and try to see that cheap flop. It took me a few months of being frustrated at rarely flopping sets to get it through my head that small PP does not always equal call.
I strongly disagree with this play. You’re very unlikely to win the pot right there versus 7 other players (especically if the table is loose/passive enough for everyone to have limped in). When you get called: you have terrible position throughout the hand, you dislike any overcard, you hate any overcard higher than a 9, and even if the board seems non-threatening you can’t stand much action since still have no idea where you stand (higher pocket pairs being entirely possible with so many players in the pot). Basically, you’re putting money into the pot out of position with a very mediocre holding, and with little-to-no chance of stealing the pot.
The best reason not to raise, though, is that it wastes the ideal situation for your small pocket pair. Simpy checking provides massive implied odds for your set, and entails none of the risks of raising (because if you don’t flop your set, you’re done with the hand). Unless you’re confident that you can steal the pot preflop, raising is not an option.
I would add that the most important factor in determining whether to call in early position with a small pocket pair is stack size (yours and your opponents’) relative to the blinds. You have to have the potential to win a very large pot (again, relative to the blinds) to justify putting in money with a hand that will be mucked on the flop the vast majority of the time.
Who’s talking about play money? Play money sucks. I’ll be in the big boys room.
And I’ve heard some of the same things about Bodog, unfortunately. I’m thinking of grabbing my winnings out of there (Im about seven hundred bucks up) and putting them in PokerStars or pokerroom.com but havent done so yet. Any recommendations?
I don’t think you ever want to slowplay a flop like quad sixes. What you do is make a very small bet that looks like a scared ace with a bad kicker. People rarely give you credit for a big hand if you bet small on the flop. Knowing online poker you will get four or five callers at a minimum. If a card comes to complete a flush or straight draw, or the ace is paired you check and let the next guy bet for you.
The rationale for betting the flop is build an enticing pot without your opponents realizing what you are doing. They will become more likely to defend in on the turn and the river. If everyone folds they likely had absolutely nothing and were unlikely to pay you off on the turn anyway. Play it slow, but be creative. If you pop the turn you are screaming “I have a six” and only the dumbest will follow you.
Betting small on the flop isn’t bad here, but you don’t really have to worry about building a pot just yet; this is no limit, you can get all the money in at your leisure. With a nearly invincible hand and 7 other players in the hand, this is a perfect spot to use the standard flopped-quads strategy: check-call until the river. You want to give as many players as you can as many chances as possible to make a second-best hand (primarily a full house). Even a small bet might knock out a guy with a small pocket pair or a three-flush, and you want these players to catch some more cards.
Since we’re on the subject, I’ve wondered something for a while:
It’s a NL home tournament, only the third or fourth hand and a short-handed table. I’ve got 7h8h and I’m BB. Player to my left (tight-aggressive) raises to 3BB’s, both SB and I call. Flop comes 6-9-T (rainbow, I’m pretty sure). If the SB folds to any bet, should I do any slowplaying whatsoever? I did, and it ended up well for me, but I’ve been told that since my hand can’t get any better without improving my opponent’s, I should’ve started being aggressive from the flopped straight.
Basically, the OP reminded me of this situation because I’m never sure how hard to push good hands from the flop. Any thoughts?
I have to agree with VarlosZ here. If raising could put you heads-up with somebody with a couple of overcards, it wouldn’t be a bad play, but if you’re late or in the blinds with a table full of limpers, you’re not gonna do that even if you raise to 3x blinds. You’re probably going to get two or three callers, which is the worst possible situation.
Scenario #1: In early position, I think it would be OK to represent the scared ace, bet small, call a raise, and check the river. In late position, I’d check and call.
Scenario #2: Not nearly enough info to say. How big is his stack compared to yours? What point of the tourney are we talking about here?
The biggest problem with slow-playing this one is that there are plenty of hands out there with better straight draws–KQ, KJ, QJ, all of which people are likely to play at a short-handed table (whether they should or not). You have the nuts right now, so you have to make them pay to see any more cards.
There’s also a pretty good-sized pot out there (9BB), so you’d be happy to take it right then and there. It also gives them the pot odds to call small bets, maybe even with a gutshot. Gotta come out big here.
For a slow-play to be correct, all of the following have to be true:
–Your hand is very strong.
–A free or cheap card is likely to make some strong second-best hands, but very unlikely to make one that beats you.
–An aggressive bet will drive people out, but checking and calling will build the pot.
The first scenario in the OP is a great example. Your hand is missing the second criterion.
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