Thank God for our police force, saving us from the evil that is strawberries...

The BBQ Pit
41

And I also stated why I felt this was the case.

Yes you could interpret that as my hypocrisy from the point of view of the person being criticized but then they would say that wouldn’t they to justify the rape of children which is easier than that person taking a good look at themselves and finding out some uncomfortable truths.
I understand the point you make Bear but it still reinforces my view that “its the law” is a refuge for the scoundrel and unquestioning.

My real concern is the effect that having to enforce laws that are, well laughable, does not engender respect in people who might otherwise support the police.

Selling crack is not a good analogy because there are victims and serious implications, it does not support your argument and drawing the parallel between Wal-Mart and age entry clubs is only worth it because it is so incongruously funny.
Maybe Wal-Mart would have lots of objections if the club started selling groceries.

Here we are discussing a victimless crime with cops caught up in the middle, possibly to bolster some right wing politicians law and order credentials.
Don’t tell me that this helps to enhance the esteem that the law is held in.

BTW is it true that in some states or counties some of your law enforcement directors are elected ?

42

BTW is it true that in some states or counties some of your law enforcement directors are elected ?
Of course!
The President of the United States is head of the Executive Branch. This makes him commander-in-chief of the armed forces and also the chief law-enforcement officer of the country.

Also, and more to the point, every county in Florida has a Sheriff. The sheriff is the Head Law Enforcement Official of that county. And he is an elected official!

Anyone can run for sheriff. In fact, a morning show DJ here is running. And so is some dipshit with lots of experience with the legal system- he has been arrested a dozen times!
The only requirements are that you not have previously been convicted of a felony, no domestic violence arrests, not be legally crazy or an alcoholic, etc.

43

I agree so completely with Missbunny, that it is hard to ad anything. Folks go to a dance club to dance, not watcj oral sex. Some could very well have been offended. Thus, it was wrong, and the offenders shoulds have been arrested, however i would only agree to a fine, and that only on those "in charge’ encouraging acts outside their purview.

On the other hand, bear, I do not agree with the “it’s the law,dammit” lline of reasoning. In a strip club, I would have to say that this should not be illegal, as folks go there for adult entertainment. Vice is the one section of the Law I would do away with altogether- it causes too many BAD cops, and foists other folks morals on those that do not want them. Not that we would not have laws to protect minors, or zoning laws to limit such enterprizes.

44

For the record, I, not Bear_Nenno, am the one who originally mentioned Wal-Mart. Comparing one public place to another is neither straw man nor incongruously funny; however, comparing a law prescribing behavior in a public place to what one might do in the privacy of one’s home in North Carolina is illogical and nonsensical.

And I don’t think it’s illegal for a club to sell groceries. Wal-Mart can object all it wants. It **is **illegal to promote sex acts or sex simulation in non-licensed venues. Whether that law should be changed is not what I am addressing.

45

dainel
**Vice is the one section of the Law I would do away with altogether- **
“Vice” is another word for “victimless crime”. Again, I am not trying to argue with whether or not these crimes are right. But they DO exist and we should not blame the cops for enforcing them.

casdave
My real concern is the effect that having to enforce laws that are, well laughable, does not engender respect in people who might otherwise support the police.
Or self respect on the part of the officer for that matter!
Do you think I enjoy enforcing bullshit ordinances?
Long Story I wanted to avoid, but very relevant follows:

Here in Tampa we have many, many strip clubs. ESPN Magazine voted Tampa’s Mons Venus the number one place both rookies and veteran baseball players like to go! Mons Venus has some of the finest women and they are fully nude! No pasties or muff covers.
For 20 dollars a person can get a full contact lap dance. Though it is called a lap dance, it is pretty much the woman rubbing her naked body all over the person and rubbing her ass all over his dick and everything else. Many people orgasm from this.
These strip clubs came into the spotlight in the last election. Bob Buckhorn, the asshole, wanted to completely get rid of them and force them out of Tampa. Buckhorn ran for a seat on the City Council. (The city law makers)
Running against him was Joe Redner. Redner happens to own at least 50% of the clubs in Tampa.
Redner lost the election. And since then, Buckhorn has helped pass an ordinance that prohibits dancers and customers from coming within 6 ft (metric= really far) of each other. How fucking ridiculous! I completely disagree with this law. I think they should be able to do what they want, short of prostitution or any other State law already on the books. (But what I think doesn’t matter. The law was voted on, and the majority thinks it is a good idea) Redner does not care about the ordinance. He continues running his clubs the way they always have been run. In protest! He also has lawsuits against the city for passing the ordinance. Now the city will have to spend millions defending a shitty law that should not have been passed in the first place. Good job Buckhorn!! What a waste of tax dollars.
Nothing ever happened with the ordinance until recently. The clubs never changed and the cops never did anything about it. But now, because of City Council pressures, the officers have been raiding clubs and arresting people all over the city. Redner does not care. He says he has been arrested hundreds of times and he is still going to run his clubs the way he has for years. He also offers to pay the legal fees of anyone arrested in his clubs. That is integrity in my opinion. He believes in something, and he is doing what he can to protest and have the law changed back to how it was. I hope he succeeds!! But now I will have to arrest the people in his clubs if I am asked to assist the task force raiding them. I do not agree with the ordinance, but I cannot just tell my boss I will not do it. So I would hate everyone looking at me like I am some kind of bad guy.
A shitty law was passed. Shitty in my opinion, but Buckhorn won the election so there is nothing I can do about that. The majority of the people must think this is a good idea. And that is how this country works. I have to take the good with the bad.

So, be pissed at the law makers, not the COPS! I cannot stand people who bitch about cops when they should focus their attention on the law makers.
I bet the majority of this city actually agrees with Redner, but they are too fucking ignorant to get out and VOTE!!
Now all these people will continue to bitch about the cops instead of actually writing the City and registering to VOTE. Bastards!!

46

And my point is that this was not a public place in the same sense as Wal-Mart is which is why it is so funny.
If you fail to see the differance then you are in a very small minority which is why lawmaking should not be entrusted to such wilfully blind people in the first place.

Come to the candy section and get your clitoris allsorts here folks.

My point about elected law directors is that they have their own PR to think about rather than respect for the law and where the interests diverge then the grunt on the ground ends up in some headline grabbing action designed just to make someone else look good.

As for licencing, given that such a licence is unlikely to be granted in many states and that there is a demand for someone to provide such services and that those services are harmless it just drags the law into disrepute.

Why is this being discussed here at all, if it made perfect sense it would not even be worth a second comment.

47

That last was directed to Missbunny not at Bear

48

PLG, your point about blaming the cops for just doing their job is well made, and I thank you for it. The end of your post is just plain wrong, wrong, wrong. I never once compaired anyone to Hitler. I said :

I thought it was obvious, but I’ll spell it out. * The behavior I am condeming is standing around doing nothing when something wrong is being done.* the comparison was with the citizens of Germany who stood by and let the evil happen. I think the best way to look at it is “willful ignorance.” A more accurate phrase might be “culpable neglagence.”

Bear. It is now evident that you are a police officer. Great! I have always supported cops, and my entire beef here has been with the LAWS, not the enforcers. Your statement on misdemenors is on the surface true, but in fact, were you to look in the window while my wife and I were having anal sex, it would be legal for you to come in and arest us. The same is true if you walked by my house and smelled a CDS being used. This is what is know as probable cause. You know this as well as I. The fact remains also that dozens of innocent citizens have been killed in the last few years when cops executed that abomible procedure known as a 'no-knock" warrent. They were given a bad tip or were at the wrong house, broke in, and someone died. I am absolutely sure the officers involved fely terrible after the fact, but it does bear witness to the fact that police authority is a delicate balance. There are some things that they should not be involved in. This is one of them.

Missbunny. The fact that you are comparing a place that is open to anyone with a place that has specific requirements to enter should be as obvious as the nose on your face. I don’t understand why you refuse to make the destinction.

49

Your statement on misdemenors is on the surface true, but in fact, were you to look in the window while my wife and I were having anal sex, it would be legal for you to come in and arest us
Actually NO! If he tried, he would be infringing on your civil rights. Entering a house without permission and without a warrant could be done if one of you were in danger, or if there were a chance you were destroying evidence or some other circumstance. In fact, if you commiteed a misdemeanor in front of a cop. He goes to arrest you and you run. You did not touch him or fight him, you just ran when you saw him coming. You are very fast and you make it to your house. You make it inside with him five yards behind you. He never caught you. You have committed two crimes. The first was whatever misdemeanor he saw you do in the first place. (Let’s say you were selling a beer to a minor). The second is Resisting an Officer Without Violence, for running. This too is a misdemeanor.
The cop can do nothing to you. HOT PURSUIT only pertains to felonies. So if you made it to your house then he can do nothing to you. Except maybe direct file with the state attorney’s office, but still, he could not COME IN and get you. You could sit in front of the window and cuss at him and show him your ass and have booty sex with your wife to tease him. He has to leave eventually.

50

Goddamn right! In this country, we only permit MALE genital mutilation!!!

51

Bear,

Your comments might be taken more seriously if you could at least spell “illegal”. And you’re a cop? What do you do, write tickets for “speding”?

BTW, what’s a “coodie”?

52

You are not looking very hard if that is the only spelling error of mine you could find, asshole!

Good one though. It takes a real man to join a conversation and point out the spelling and typing errors of posters. :rolleyes:
Why not try to add something to the conversation? Are you too stupid to have an opinion? Too ignorant to speak about the law?
Go fuck yourself, you anal retentive, nit-picking, spellcheck Nazi!

53

Yeah, Phil! The only mutilation we allow on females is for them to put big bags of salt water in their sweater meat!

And as for…

http://www.marquette.edu/polisci/wolfe/bowers.htm

From that site:

That case, as you can see by reading the link, was taken all the way to the Supreme Court, and they ruled that yes, Hardwick’s arrest WAS Constitutional.

Ironically enough, the GA statutes against sodomy were later overturned in the courts (State Constitutions generally provide more protections than the big one). In Powell v. State…well, if I just tell you, you won’t believe me. Here’s the link where I got the info: http://www.geocities.com/privacylaws/USA/Georgia/georgia.htm

However, for that one law that was overturned, there are still 17 states (as well as Puerto Rico) that have sodomy laws on the books for at least homosexual couples. These states include Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas (although that one is facing a court challenge), Alabama (unless you’re married), Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Utah, Virginia, and Puerto Rico. Most statutes include both fines and jail times. Fines range from $200 to $3000, jail time from 30 days to 20 years.

All info in the previous paragraph was taken from http://www.aclu.org/issues/gay/sodomy.html .

I know this isn’t about sodomy laws, Bear, but I just wanted to show you and everyone else another example of you talking out of your ass. Which unfortunately, unlike some other things you can do with your ass, isn’t illegal in 17 states.

54

As it happens, the only exception to my vegetarianism. :smiley:

55

GOD DAMNIT

IF one more asshole chimes in with more bullshit, I do not know what the fuck to do.

If you go back and fucking read what I said before about booty sex being a misdemeanor in Florida and how I was assiming it was in North Carolina (Which you have not proven me wrong about, but if you did it would not matter because I admitted I was assuming) !

I made it clear that cops could not enter and arrest you for a misdemeanor. If you look at thise sites you fucking gave me. DId you even read your own site? You will see that Sodomy in Georgia is a FELONY

Key fucking word there is FELONY

Do you need me to fucking speal slower???

I am not talking out of my ass, I know what they fuck I am talking about. IF you took the fucking time to read what I said, or at least read your own fucking sources, you will see that I know what the fuck I am talking about.
It was a good fucking try. But I think you only succeeded in making you look stupid. Before you post next time, make sure you fucking know what you are saying!!!

56

Another example? Another? When was the first? So far all you have done was a little research and made a pretty little post. Too bad you missed the whole fucking point about the difference between a felony and a misdemeanor.
Maybe you will want to find the first instance I talked out of my ass and comment on that. Or are you too scared that you will look like a fucking idiot all over again?

57

I realize spelling/grammer flames are considered bad form here, but come on! A police officer is in a position of public trust. Shouldn’t he at least be literate? It’s not like you’re trying to spell some word like “troubadour”! After all, wouldn’t “legal” and “illegal” be part of the regular police routine?

58

Number of times he said fuck= 11
Number of insights provided= 0
Final score= -11

Game Over
Continue? Quit?

59

Sorry, but I do not type my reports.
Since we are on this, I will agree and say ok I looked foolish mispelling that word. Spelling is important especially when arguing. But believe me, it is not the first and it definitely will not be the last.
I do not mispell illegal in my reports. Or anything else I write. Of course, I write much slower than I type. While typing, the word seemed to be coming out ok. I did not notice I was typing it wrong but, I guess I was. So am I a retard? I did not proof read my posts… shame on me!
Let’s get back to the discussion, shall we?

The fact is, I know the law, and I know what the hell I am talking about. It seemed kinda trivial that all you could point out was my shitty keyboarding skills.

60

Bear, shut the fuck up. You are obviously an idiot. If you are also a cop, then you are a very bad one. I have just gotten off the phone with the Harford County Sheriffs Dept. and the Maryland State Police. Both of them verified that what I said before is true. Realizing that things may be different in Florida, I proceded to call the Sheriffs Office in Gainsville, Fl. ( picked at random from the phone book), and spoke to a Deputy Buchannan. The question I posed whs exactly what you just outlined. " If I was standing on the corner, smoking a joint, and you passed by and saw the joint, smelled the pot, and ordered me to stand still for questioning, and I turned and ran into my house, could you follow me and detain me for questioning, confiscate the joint for analasis and then come back and arrest me when it was found to be pot or arrest me?" His response? " Of course. We have the right to do so to make sure you don’t flush the evidence. It is not likely that we would try to bust you for such a misdemenior, but we have the right to." I then explained why I had called, and he opined that you might just be a bad cop, or one who dosen’t know the law.

In sumation,on one hand we have you, histericaly claiming that cops can’t persue lawbreakers when they have probable cause. On the other we have three different officers, from three different police forces in two different states saying you don’t know your ass from your elbow. Hmmmmmmm. Sorry, it’s a tough choice, but you lack credibility. Frankly, at this point, I doubt that you are a cop at all. I’ll bet you are a fat loser who sits hunched in front of his computer all day eating twinkees out of your C.H.I.P.S. lunchbox, with endless replayings of ’ Ft. Apachie, The Bronx ', ’ Homicide, Life on the Streets ', ’ Dirty Harry ', and ’ NYPD Blue ’ playing on the TV behind you, dreaming of being part of “The Thin Blue Line” and avenging all the slights you’ve endured in your life, both real and imagined. Creeps like you usually own a gun, it helps compensate for the lack of feeling in your penis. I suggest you take out your gun, polish it loveingly, load it with wadcutters ( you losers ALWAYS use wadcutters ), put it in your mouth, taste the bitter metal, and pull the trigger. You’ll be a lot happier, and so will we.