Thanks a lot, Republican party.....

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1

Thanks a lot, Dubya and Cheney, for thoroughly dragging the Republican paty through the mud and crap, demeaning and maligning the party to the point that I’m ashamed to admit that I’m a Republican (old-school Pubbie, not a “Bush-Pubbie”), thanks for destroying the U.S.'s standing in the world, and thanks for increasing corruption and government spending to stratospheric heights, and getting us into that quagmire currently masquerading as the “Iraq War”

Yes, there’s a reason for this thread…

My family has been staunchly Republican for all 36 years of my life, in all that time, Bush and Cronies have managed to do the unthinkable to this family…

Make me consider voting for Obama, if Ron Paul continues fading further into obscurity, that is
Make my 60+ year old Mother consider voting for Obama, as she doesn’t feel that she can trust anyone else in the race

and most stunningly, make my 75 year old Father, a man who has voted Republican in EVERY election since I was born, consider NOT EVEN VOTING this year, Dad has never not voted, but he’s a hardcore Republican, the chances of him voting for a Democrat or Independent are roughly equivalent to Hell freezing over, yet he feels that he may sit this election out, nobody appeals to him, he doesn’t trust the republican candidates, and he feels that the Dems will tax us into oblivion (what, you mean like Dubya’s done for the last eight years?)

Dad’s a smart guy, he was VP, and then President of Clarostat manufacturing, a company that made analog switches, potentiometers and other components in the old Mill Building in Dover, NH (now known as One Washington Center), their products were used in everything from home electrical appliances and electronics, all the way up to the F-16 and AV-8 Harrier fighters, He’s a shrewd businessman (now long retired), and if HE doesn’t find anyone worth voting for, that’s just unnerving to me…

don’t get me wrong, he’s no mindless Pubbie-Drone, he HATES Bush and Cronies as much as I do, and as much as my fellow Dopers, to hear him say that “I might as well sit this one out” to me is, quite frankly, jaw-dropping

Bravo, Dubya, you’re doing a hell of a job!

2

Y’know, I don’t think you’ll get much of debate on this.

That’s not being snarky, either.

And, I agree with you.

3

Here’s question: why hasn’t the republican party stepped back and, noticing the rather terrible reviews it’s getting, denounced Bush/Cheney/the neo-con agenda? Are they that dedicated to the cause? Are they that infected with committed neo-cons that clearer heads couldn’t take control of the party? Are they that afraid of his presidential power, that he could strike at them with all of congress opposing him? What?

4

There was a New England branch or Republicans that actually stood for something. The “southern strategy” was the first blow and Bush has now killed it entirely.

5

What clearer heads? These guys ARE the Republican Party. This is what the Republican Party has been like for the last 30 years. Reagan was pulling exactly the same shit – the fiscal irresponsibility, the secrecy, the corruption, the disregard for the rule of law, the mismanagement. Cheney and Rumsfeld weren’t some rebels from out of nowhere. They’ve been in the inner circle since Nixon was in office. This is what Republican government looks like.

MacTech, I’m glad you and your dad have realized what morons these guys are, but, seriously, what took you so long? You’ve been played, dude.

6

My parents are younger than yours, but feel much the same. Dad said he doesn’t really want to vote, and my mom said she’ll vote for McCain only if Romney is his running mate. I voted for Romney in the primary, so I could be swayed that way too though I don’t really see it happening. But if Obama gets the dem nod, I might cast my very first democratic presidential vote - if my choice is basically 2 Democrats, I’d prefer him to McCain.

People talk a lot about how Clinton and Obama are dividing their party, but McCain had done a good job on our side too. He’s not as hated as Clinton is, but there’s not a lot of love for him from a lot of old school Republicans even if the neo-cons like him.
This is a non sequitur, but I thought Clarostat was across the street from One Washington.

7

This is why the current polls showing McCain defeating both Obama and Clinton should be taken with a gigantic grain of salt. Grandpa McCain is going to get absolutely destroyed in November.

8

Weren’t you as positive about Kerry four years ago? I was too, I admit it.

Confidence is good, but results come from work.

9

Far be it from me to talk you out of this plan of action, but I don’t understand how in the world anyone can consider McCain to be anywhere close to a Democrat? The only things he differs with Bush/Cheney on is…nothing, really. He talked a good game against torture until he started running for president this time. Then he started the standard Republican talking points. He does disagree with the mainstream of the party on immigration, but that’s about it. In public pronouncement he’s pro-war, pro-torture, pro-business, pro-life and pro-homophobia. I don’t see it. He’s even gone back on the freaking campaign finance law that bears his freaking name!

10

Yep. I agree.

11

Speaks the man who apparently slept through every tirade the right wing has made against Hillary Clinton for the last 16 years and therefore doesn’t realize how much she’s despised by the Republicans. She’s going to galvanize the Republican vote like nothing short of an invasion of illegal gay Mexican aliens coming to the US for abortions and same-sex marriage in Massachusetts.

12

A question for MacTech. I can certainly see a Republican being disgusted with the effect Bush has had on the GOP (that’s pretty much my own situation) but I don’t understand your father’s attitude. You say he’s a lifelong Republican who’s considering not voting for the first time. So he must have voted for Bush and Cheney in 2004. Quite frankly, I haven’t seen any surprises in Bush’s second term - everything he’s done was readily foreseeable when he ran for re-election. So if your father’s so disgusted with Bush that he won’t vote for McCain, why didn’t he not vote for Bush?

13

Modern conservatives don’t dislike Bush because of his policies. They dislike him because he’s a loser.

They need to think harder about cause and effect. Reagan gutted banking regulation and the result was the S&L crisis. Bush’s appointees took took a chainsaw to those oh-so-burdensome banking regulations and we got liar loans, predatory lending and the necessity of central bank bailouts as a result. Enjoy your recession.

Reagan promised tax cuts, balanced budgets and higher military spending all at the same time. The difference was supposed to be made up with, “Waste, Fraud and Abuse”. Anybody who believes in all that is rather gullible, I would say.
The problem with today’s Republican party starts with the typical modern conservative, who is temperamentally incapable of generating coherent policies whenever uncomfortable tradeoffs are involved. Until they get over their emotional issues they really shouldn’t be trusted with sharp objects, let alone ballot boxes. Ok that was rhetoric: but jeez, I find that the protests of the modern conservative invariably smack of phoniness. Look in the mirror, bub.

14

Here’s a debate point.

Dubya hasn’t taxed us to oblivion, like you implied.

And holy crap! Your first choice for president was Ron “dismantle the government and let everyone compete to the death in an arena” Paul? The Republican center is so far away from that it’s not even funny. Mainstream Republicans have more in common with Democrats than they do with Paul.

15

Mainstream Republicans have more in common with Democrats than with just about anyone else, really. Of course, there is hardly such a thing as a mainstream Republican anymore, by the classic definition of cutting spending, balancing the budget, protecting individual liberties, etc. But then, Bush practically shoved me out of the Republican party as early as September 10, 2001.

16

You can get the party back, and I sincerely hope that you do. But to do it will take political courage, the kind of poltical courage the Dems showed when they gave up their alliance with the knuckle-walking racists of the Party. And just like Lyndon said, the cost was very, very high.

The Republicans will have to undo the Unholy Bargain they have made, and that will cost votes. They will have to adjust to a role as the Loyal Opposition, having only the power of principled advice. Stern medicine, and cold comfort. And a really, really tough sell.

17

He has run up an insane amount of debt, not to mention commitments to expenses such as care for veterans of his spectacularly incompetently handled Iraq debacle.

What is national debt if not a tax on future generations of Americans?

18

One achievement of the current Republican administration is to call into question the existence of T-bills (ala the SS surplus), the rule of law, the restraint against proactive military invasions of other countries, and on and on.

Perhaps the assumption of future generations of Americans is also something that they regard as a matter of opinion.

19

Nah. It’s just something they don’t care about because they’ll all be dead by the time the bill comes due and they have absolutely no sense of responsibility to anything but their own aggrandizement and (literal) enrichment.

20

Bush, Cheney, et al. are not morons. They may not be rocket scientists either, but their whole approach to governance is to assume that we are the morons. On average, at least. And so far, evidence suggests they’re not wrong.