Thankyou George W. Bush

[monavis]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

I deliberately avoided GD, because I was well aware that I am not equiped to adequately back up my opinion. What I’ve said is simply how I feel.

I might add that the Obama administration, Cairo speech at el, is just as significant if not more than the Bush administration for the new wave of middle east peoples, starting with Iran, having the guts to challenge illegitimate authority with the hope for democracy in the future.

Clearly we are in a new phase of middle east history.

History always follows a timeline and consequences result for every action often quite subtle and often not immediate. That is my opinion as well.

According to Bush SR. he didn’t go into Baghdad because he was warned that of the hornets nest of radicals that are now stirred up, would cause the uprising that now came out of Jr’s decision to get into a war with Iraq,which could have well waited until he finished the war in Aphganistan! The money spent on the Irag war is part of what caused a lot of terrorists from other countries to get involved. And it hurt our ecomomy.

Way too many of our brave men and women who fought there lost their lives, and a great many of Iraq’s innocent people. And even now they have suicide bombers killing more. The story of Iraq is not yet over!

[Der_Trihs]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

I deliberately avoided GD, because I was well aware that I am not equiped to adequately back up my opinion. What I’ve said is simply how I feel.

I might add that the Obama administration, Cairo speech at el, is just as significant if not more than the Bush administration for the new wave of middle east peoples, starting with Iran, having the guts to challenge illegitimate authority with the hope for democracy in the future.

By what logic would what we did in Iraq inspiring anyone to “challenge illegitimate authority”, or to regard “democracy” with anything but hatred? Our actions in Iraq were a setback to the democratic and human rights movement in the region, not an inspiration. We promoted the idea that “democracy” means chaos, destruction, mass death and subjugation by America.

If it had any effect promoting what’s happening in Egypt it would not be by inspiring a love of democracy, but by inspiring greater hated for America and by extension the dictator there we were propping up. We are and have been the enemy of democracy in the region, not its friend.

[ElvisL1ves]

@ExTank

Dollars to donuts, though, if it came to pass there’d be a Pit Thread (excuse me, another Pit Thread) about 1 minute after it hit the news, started by and posted to by most of the same people praising Obama for the wonderful events taking place in Egypt right now, on W for the wonderful mess in Egypt due to his inept foreign policy.

Now think a moment. What does it say about you that you have to imagine something hypothetically occurring in order to find “liberal hypocrisy”? :rolleyes:

[gonzomax]

The people of Iraq were encouraged to overthrow Saddam by Bush 1, after the Desert War. The people were heartened and made an attempt. Bush ignored them and let Saddam slaughter the people involved. They still remember that. Bush promised help and turned his back on them.

1991 Iraqi uprisings - Wikipedia In case you forgot.

[Chefguy]

@VinylTurnip

Who’s praising Obama for what’s happening in Egypt? Near as I can tell, he’s watching it unfold the way the rest of us are.

Absolutely nobody. But what’s important here is that he feeeels that that’s the case.

[SteveG1]

@RealityChuck

Re the OP:

Look up Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

I give the rooster credit for making the sun come up, too.

There have been no people killed and eaten by wild tigers here, since I moved into this neighborhood. I claim sole, and full credit.

[42fish]

@Lakai

Yeah, Regan deserves credit for the fall of the Soviet Union.

Frankly, I think you’re selling Goneril and Cordelia short.

[brocks]

Looks to me like Bush wasted a trillion dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives on what could have been done with some community organizers.

[madmonk28]

Actually, it’s looking like it should be “Thank You President Clinton.” From this article in the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/14/world/middleeast/14egypt-tunisia-protests.html?_r=1&hp):

For their part, Mr. Maher and his colleagues began reading about nonviolent struggles. They were especially drawn to a Serbian youth movement called Otpor, which had helped topple the dictator Slobodan Milosevic by drawing on the ideas of an American political thinker, Gene Sharp. The hallmark of Mr. Sharp’s work is well-tailored to Mr. Mubark’s Egypt: He argues that nonviolence is a singularly effective way to undermine police states that might cite violent resistance to justify repression in the name of stability.

Otpor was largely supported (some say created) by USAID and it’s grantees beginning in the late 1990s. I worked at one such NGO which was using USAID money to train Otpor at its very beginning (I didn’t work on this project, but I know people who did). Otpor - Wikipedia

So, if any American president can claim a sliver of credit, it would seem to be President Clinton and the good folks at USAID and their NGO implementers.

[Jas09]

@madmonk28

So, if any American president can claim a sliver of credit, it would seem to be President Clinton and the good folks at USAID and their NGO implementers.

Thank God USAID is on the list of programs to be canceled in the GOP budget outline. http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/01/20/165_house_republicans_endorse_defunding_usaid

[shiftless]

@Agnostic_Pagan

Of course, G.W. Bush deserves credit. His policy of non-regulation of the financial sector led to the collapse of world economy and the ensuing rise in food and energy prices which led to the upheavals in Tunisia, Egypt and elsewhere.

The amazing thing is that W, and Reagan before him, had the whole master plan all worked out beforehand and us mere mortals are only now beginning to see the big picture. I can see W in my mind’s eye, pausing in his brush-clearly down on the ranch to smile a little smile and think, “I love it when a plan comes together.”

[John_Mace]

I don’t see how this could remotely be credited to Bush. No one really knows why the time was right, and the Tunisian incident seems to have set the whole thing off.

There is the weird thing where people seem to think that the whole world is dependent on what the US does, and whatever happens in any country is somehow our fault or our doing. I remember when the Tsunami hit Thailand, there were people wanting to blame the US for not having a good enough warning system in that area.

[Dick_Dastardly]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

You took us to war in Iraq on the excuse of WMDs. Right or wrong, I always believed you were looking at the big picture. I gave credence to the idea that birthing a democracy in the middle east, ie, Iraq, would spill democracy over. Well now we have possibilities in Tunisia, some real hope foir Egypt and all the money in the middle east couldn’t support a dictator. And , even strong non-democratic regimes like Saudi Arabia are shaking in their boots. I gave Reagan credit for the fall of th Soviet empire based his prerequisite programs. I give Bush credit for what’s happening today.

If Bush was serious about creating a democracy in the Middle East why did he continue to prop up dictatorships in half a dozen Arab countries that border Iraq during the Iraq war? If he wanted to create a democracy in Saudi for instance why not just phone up Vinnell corp. and tell them to withdraw the 500 US mercenaries that protect the Saudi royal family from their own security forces?

Why continue to give countries like Egypt and Jordan billions of dollars a year in aid? Why did Bush do everything he coulf to not hold free elections in Iraq until he was forced to by an Iranian Ayatollah? Why did he want his appointees to write an Iraqi constitution first then contest an election between themselves? Why did Bush allow the winners of the Iraqi election to set up a government when previously he’d been describing them as Iranian-backed terrorist groups and enemy combatants and telling them to stay out of the countrry?

Bush said he didn’t want democracy in Egypt because the Muslim Brotherhood might win, how does that square with his claim of promoting democracy? Why did Bush refuse to accept the results of the Palestinian election and try to overthrow the government that the Palestinians democratically elected, peace be upon them?

[Dick_Dastardly]

@Agnostic_Pagan

Of course, G.W. Bush deserves credit. His policy of non-regulation of the financial sector led to the collapse of world economy and the ensuing rise in food and energy prices which led to the upheavals in Tunisia, Egypt and elsewhere.

This is dead right. This was the Bu’ ushist regime’s contribution to the Tunisia/Egypt revolutions.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

I deliberately avoided GD, because I was well aware that I am not equiped to adequately back up my opinion. What I’ve said is simply how I feel.

I might add that the Obama administration, Cairo speech at el, is just as significant if not more than the Bush administration for the new wave of middle east peoples, starting with Iran, having the guts to challenge illegitimate authority with the hope for democracy in the future.

Clearly we are in a new phase of middle east history.

History always follows a timeline and consequences result for every action often quite subtle and often not immediate. That is my opinion as well.

Oh Shit. I thought you were being sarcastic. :eek: