The 100 Most Influential People - Try the Third

The Game Room
221

Inventors: William Morton
Leaders: Peter the Great
Philosophy: Ludwig von Beethoven
Religion: Asoka
Science: Galileo Galilei
I changed my mind on one- I’d been voting for Cyrus earlier, but have switched to Peter the Great. Russia would have become the leading regional power with almost ANY tsar or tsarina. Peter changed Russia far less than he wanted to, far less than he’s reputed to have.

As for Morton… his accomplishments were real enough, but a lot of doctors (including Crawford Long) had been using anaesthetics with some degree of success. Morton came up with an effective delivery system, but given the zeitgeist, I think someone else would have done so before long.

222

I’d include Alan Turing, Sun Tzu, Nicola Tesla, Leonardo Da Vinci and Norman Borlaug. I think Da Vinci belongs on the list more than some of the other artists like Michelangelo.

223

Invention
Louis Dagurre, Scientist, Invented Photography
Leaders
Sui Wen Ti, Chinese Emperor, Reunited China
Philosophy and the Arts
Lao Tzu, Chinese Philosopher, Founded Taoism
Religion
Asoka, Indian Emperor, Spread Buddhism
Science
Enrico Fermi, Scientist, Developed Atomic Bomb

224

Leader: A little surprised that Abe Lincoln didn’t make the cut. Certainly a pivotal figure in US history.

Science: I guess Watson and Crick for their double helix is worth mention, just because this kick started so many other projects.

Religion: Brigham Young because I can’t think of anyone else to put there.

Arts: D. W. Griffith who showed the world how to make a movie, and he’s still considered one of the great directors.

Invention: Bill Gates. Maybe he did steal most of the concepts, but DOS became the template to everything we consider computers now.

225

[Host]
Formatting rules, please repost, etc etc etc.

Danke.

Others: And what’s with the colons ( : ) ? Separate the category and name by a period (.)
[/Host]

226

Invention. Marconi
Leader. Peter the Great
Philosophy. Voltaire
Religion. John Calvin
Science. Copernicus

Marconi only barely beat Tesla to the mark (if he did). The rest are repeats.

For influential people left off the list - is “living” a disqualifier? I’d be tempted to nominate George Lucas for his influence on filmmaking.

227

I disagree. Leonardo was famous but he wasn’t really influential. He wasn’t prolific as an artist and he didn’t establish any new schools of art. And his scientific “inventions” were just fantasy - he never studied the fundamental engineering of how things actually worked.

228

Invention. Orville and Wilbur Wright
Leaders. Charlemagne
Philosophy. Voltaire
Religion. Asoka
Science. James Clerk Marxwell

Asoka and Marxwell are new, and I admit to not knowing a whole lot about either one. And I think Moses deserves to stick around, because although he may be mythological, there is no denying the influence of the myths attributed to him.

229

Hey John, could you please please fix the typo in James Clerk Maxwell’s last name next time you post an update?

230

See, the thing about Moses (and Homer, for that matter) is that we’re not sure that the things attributed to him were the work of one person. (I’m not voting for Moses at the moment, but I might after Calvin and maybe Asoka are gone).

231

We’re not even sure the things attributed to him ocurred at all (eg the Exodus). But I’m looking at the influence of the myth, not the veracity. There’s no rule about voting either way though.

232

Done. It should be fixed by the next round. However, people still copying their previous votes will still have “Marxwell”.

233

Invention. Orville and Wilbur Wright
Leader. Genghis Khan
Philosophy. Michelangelo
Religion. John Calvin
Science. Leonhard Euler

If Bell’s gone then the Wright brothers should be gone for the same reason.

I’m sticking by my reasoning for Genghis Khan! Boy I’m going to look like such a genius when he’s eventually voted off!..in the last couple of rounds… :wink:

I think in the religion category, we’re rapidly getting down to some of the more famous historical figures to have ever lived. It’s like the heavyweight division now, most of the remainders either started a religion or was critical to a religion. I’m going with voting off the newest guy. Sorry Calvin!

234

I think there are three separate excellent reasons for eliminating fictional people early on.

(1) An obvious test is to ask “How different would the world be if X (e.g. Moses) had never lived at all?” For those who already think X never lived at all, the answer is “No different!”

(2) If mythical persons get credit for their mythical deeds, it would become silly. Adam, Eve and Noah might be the three finalists.

(3) The fact that this is “Try the third” shows that care is needed to define the criteria; I thought we’d agreed to use Hart’s; he insists on non-fictionality. (He includes Moses and Homer on his list because he thinks they were real people.)

I didn’t vote for Moses and Homer in the earliest rounds simply because I find it only likely but not certain that they were fictional.

By the way, charges of fictionality have also been levied against Lao Tzu and Ts’ai Lun. I hope those making those allegations will post supporting URL’s.

235

Somebody might have agreed to stipulate using Hart’s criteria, but the person hosting this game didn’t. :wink:

And anyway, using the Hart criteria is irrelevant because we “know” who would win by Hart’s criteria - Mohammed. If we’re going to use his reasoning, why have the contest at all? :confused:

Again, the rule: In each round, vote for one person (within each category) as the least influential person of the remaining names. How you define “least influential” is up to you.

236

septimus - I don’t disagree on any particular point. I think I am looking at “Moses” as a stand-in for the author(s)/compiler(s) of the Jewish Law and first five books of the Jewish/Christian Bible – much like “Homer” is a stand-in for the author of the Illiad and Lun for the original inventor of paper. In that respect, “Moses” is more influential than Adam or Noah or many of the other people on the list (IMO).

Similarly, when it comes to voting for Jesus, I’ll be taking “Jesus” to mean the figure described in the Gospels and tradition as opposed to limiting consideration to what we know about the actual, historical figure.

237

Last day for this round, by the way…

238

Inventions. Orville and Wilbur Wright
Leader. Cyrus the Great
Philosophy and Arts. Michelangelo
Religion. ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab
Science. Ernest Rutherford

239

  1. But nowhere is Prometheus being credited for creating people and giving them fire. Moses is still linked directly to two current subjects: Passover and the 10 commandments. There is zero evidence of a series of plagues hitting Egypt resulting in the expulsion of a people and burning bushes are terrible at giving dictation, but like Jesus, the myth remains a powerful force today.

  2. Cain would get my vote for the first murder, but some myths, (again Moses and Jesus), have greater impact than others, like Noah or his earlier version, Gilgamesh. As such, I see St. Augustine, and for that matter Pope Urban, as more influential than Jesus. Jesus didn’t write books, nor lead armies to their doom. His followers did. Believing god is guiding your actions doesn’t pass the blame of disaster back up to heaven. Poor translations of the bible have also had a huge impact on Western society. But that’s a different thread.

  3. Homer is a handy name to give to the league of people who helped create the Iliad and the ruins of Troy have been found. And hey, once again, Passover and the commandments are enough to make Moses worth noting. Not to worry, Homer is gone and Moses won’t last much longer.

Agree with the curious remarks on Lao Tzu and Ts’ai Lun. Lao Tzu especially still has a huge impact on China. The Tao is the corner stone to Chinese bureaucracy, and if not for that, they would have taken over centuries ago.

240

Round 7 is over!

The losers are:

Category, Name, # of votes

R, John Calvin, 6
S, Leonhard Euler, 4
P, Ludwig Von Beethoven, 4
I, Orville and Wilbur Wright, 8
L, Peter the Great, 5

Almost done with the artists - I think only Michaelangelo is next. I feel that Euler lost because of a very low Q score - his brand isn’t very well known. :wink:

Remaing names for round 8:

Inventions

Alexander Fleming, Scientist, Invented Penicillin
Antony van Leeuwenhoek, Scientist, Inventor of Microscope
Edward Jenner, Scientist, Developed Vaccination for Smallpox
Gugilemo Marconi, Scientist, Invented Radio
Henry Ford, American Industrialist, Developed Mass Production Techniques
James Watt, British Scientist, Invented Steam Engine
Johann Gutenberg, Scientist, Inventor of Printing Press
Joseph Lister, Scientist, Developed Antiseptic Methods
Louis Dagurre, Scientist, Invented Photography
Nikolaus August Otto, Scientist, Developed Internal Combustion Engine
Thomas Edison, American Scientist, 1,000+ inventions
Ts’ai Lun, Scientist, Inventor of Paper
William TG Morton, Scientist, Invented Anaesthesia

Leaders

Adolf Hitler, German Dictator, Started World War II
Alexander the Great, Macedonian Ruler, Formed Macedonian Empire
Augustus Caesar, Roman Princep, Founded Roman Empire
Charlemagne, Frankish Monarch, Founder of Holy Roman Empire
Cyrus the Great, Persian Emperor, Founded Persian Emperor
Genghis Khan, Mongol Ruler, Founded Mongol Empire
George Washington, American Statesman and General, Fought For Independence of United States
Josef Stalin, Dictator of USSR, Expanded Communism
Julius Caesar, Roman General, Ended Roman Civil Wars
Lenin, Russian Leader, Founded Communism in Russia
Mao Zedong, Chinese Dictator, Established Communism in China
Napoleon Bonaparte, French Emperor, Waged Napoleonic Wars
Queen Elizabeth I, Queen of England, Made England a Naval Power
Sui Wen Ti, Chinese Emperor, Reunited China
William the Conquerer, Norman Duke and English King, Led In Norman Conquest of England

Philosophy and Arts

Adam Smith, Economist, Advocated Capitalism
Aristotle, Greek Philosopher
Confucius, Chinese Philosopher, Founder of Confucianism
Francis Bacon, Philosopher, Developed Scientific Method
John Locke, British Philosopher, Developed Democratic Ideas
Karl Marx, Economist, Founder of Communism
Lao Tzu, Chinese Philosopher, Founded Taoism
Michelangelo, Artist, Sculptor
Nicoli Machiavelli, Political Theorist
Plato, Greek Philosopher, Developed Platonism
Thomas Jefferson, American Statesman, Wrote Declaration of Independence, Louisiana Purchase
Voltaire, French Philosopher
William Shakespeare, English Playwright

Religions

‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, Muslim Caliph, Expanded the Caliphate
Asoka, Indian Emperor, Spread Buddhism
Buddha, Founder of Buddhism
Constantine the Great, Roman Emperor, Tolerated and Promoted Christianity in Rome
Jesus Christ, Founder of Christianity
Martin Luther, Theologian, Started Protestantism and Reformation
Mohammed, Founder of Islam
Moses, Jewish Prophet
St Augustine, Christian Theologian
St Paul, Christian Missionary and Apostle

Sciences

Albert Einstein, Scientist, Physicist, Theory of Relativity
Charles Darwin, British Scientist, Theory of Evolution
Enrico Fermi, Scientist, Developed Atomic Bomb
Ernest Rutherford, Scientist, Developed Subatomic Physics
Euclid, Greek Mathematician
Galileo Galilei, Scientist, Advocated Heliocentricity
Isaac Newton, British Scientist, Theory of Universal Gravitation and Motion
James Clerk Maxwell, Scientist, Electromagnetism
Johannes Kepler, Scientist, Developed Theories of Planetary Motion
John Dalton, Scientist, Atomic Theory
Louis Pasteur, Scientist, Pasteurization, Germ Theory of Disease
Max Planck, Scientist, Developed Therodynamics
Michael Faraday, British Scientist, Discovered Electromagnetism
Nicolas Copernicus, Scientist, Theory of Heliocentricity

Boozahol Squid, P.I., I didn’t count your votes. Please follow the formatting rules in the future. Thanks!