The 2017/2018 Trump/GOP tax plan

Eliminating the personal deduction is a huge tax on the lower classes. Currently, the personal deduction phases out once you start getting around a quarter million in income per year, so rich people get no benefit out of it. It also severely discourages having kids compared to the present, although it looks like they may revamp the Child Tax Credit to help this slightly. Extending the Child Tax Credit to more wealthy people makes sense only from a eugenics perspective; currently, the tax system more strongly encourages poor people to have kids than rich people. Personally, and I know this likely sounds abhorrent at first, but I would support removing any child tax breaks from poor people unless they allow their children to be semi-adopted by an upper-middle class family, in which both get tax breaks. Habits that tend to cause poverty are spread to one’s children, and if we really want to improve the lives of poor children and put them on equal footing with others, we need to give their families an incentive for them to be groomed by those who have good life habits, not their parents. The semi-adopters would not become legal parents of the children, but there would be additional tax incentives tied to the tax income provided by the adoptee upon reaching adulthood that would encourage the semi-adoptive parents to seek the best for their quasi-children. But I’m sure most people think I just want to take poor children away from their parents without considering what I’m actually trying to accomplish, and no one will ever support it. At least I’m trying though.

I personally don’t understand the point of the tax on corporations’ income. As long as it gets taxes at regular income rates when it gets sent to the shareholders, I’m not sure why we should have another level of taxation and a whole portion of the tax code dedicated to the taxation of corporations. Simply stop it and eliminate the provision that qualified dividends are taxed at the same rates as long-term capital gains. There would probably still be a shortfall, but I would definitely accept a larger personal tax rate so as to eliminate completely the double taxation of corporations. As it stands, while it’s a bigger chunk of the federal budget than the estate tax, it’s still falls well below the personal income tax in share of total revenue, and I would like the tax system better if all those taxes were just rolled in there. Even more to the point, I would simply have all corporations taxed just like S-Corps, as pass-through entities, where the shareholders pay tax on income regardless of whether they receive distributions or not. You could then eliminate the distinction between a corporation and a non-corporation, taxing every multi-member entity as a partnership and every single-member entity as a disregarded entity. Doing so would allow you to eliminate huge swaths of the tax code. Of course, it would make the rather tricky partnership law a bit more important, but then at least there’d only be one system instead of two.

Doing that would also eliminate a partial loophole of becoming an S-Corp so as to not have to pay self-employment tax on all of your income as a small but not hugely successful business owner. Those who makes tons of money already miss most self-employment taxes on most of their income due to being over the Social Security wage limit, and the Obamacare Net Investment Tax now covers most of the gap for Medicare that was being missed, but there’s still plenty of folks out there who effectively steal money by saying some of their self-employment income is from their investment in their business simply because they have a corporate wrapper on it, while someone else with the exact same business without that wrapper pays more in taxes. The only question to me is at what point “investing” in Social Security is actually still a net benefit - there are two break points at which increased wages have a lesser effect on your retirement benefit than they did before the break point.

Ok, that’s more of a critique of the current tax system and has very little to do with the Republican plan, but, eh, it’s close enough to on topic, and it’s what I’ve got to say on the subject of tax reform.

This might be the first time in my life I’ve heard someone use the word “decent” to describe a tax.

Not necessarily. It’s not the number of brackets, it’s the difference between the top and bottom bracket. If you have five brackets at 20%, 21%, 22%, 23%, 24%, and 25%, versus three brackets at 20%, 25%, and 30%, the five brackets would be flatter.

It also depends on the cutoff point for each brackets. For example, if your five brackets had limits set that captured 20% of households in each, and your three-bracket example had limits set that captured 99% of people in the 25% bracket, then the second option would be flatter.

There are essentially three classes, people who shop at Wal-Mart, people who wouldn’t be caught dead at Wal-Mart, and people who own it. The last group suffers from excess money, a condition of malignant materialism that hinders personal growth. It is our bound duty to relieve this burden, as best we can. Someday, they will thank us. Or not.

AP article today about how Trump expects to pay for this $5.8 TRILLION dollar tax plan, and the article ends with this:

Since 1981 when Reagan took office, has any GOP expectation or assertion like this, about the economy, ever actually come true in real life?

Trickle down didn’t work. Removing regulations from banks didn’t work. Etc. Unless I’m just not remembering the great GOP economic success stories of the past 40 years, why in hell should Americans think this will be any different from the other times if we listen to the GOP?

People generally seem to have believed that they were “better off” under Reagan in 1984. I’d be delighted to hear your theory on why you think they were wrong.

A map of the electoral college is your evidence in support of the assertion that “People generally seem to have believed that they were “better off” under Reagan in 1984”?

Are you serious? :confused:

If you’d like to try and actually answer the questions you quoted, I’d be interested in that. But I really don’t want to see this thread de-railed for 3 pages by obfuscation like this.

The electoral college map is showing that he won an overwhelming victory in 1984. He did so, in part at least, because people were able to answer his “better off than you were four years ago” questions in the affirmative that time around.

Your assertion is not an answer to any of the questions which you quoted. The fact that you’ve doubled down on it doesn’t indicate any greater weight that should be placed on it.

Is it just me, or does this bear a lot of similarity to the Simpson-Bowles plan? That was the plan that came out of a bipartisan commission of retired congresscritters led by the eponymous Simpson and Bowles, which was commissioned by President Obama as part of a tax overhaul plan. I seem to recall said plan came out and then was widely ignored, but this seems to be basically the same plan. Increase the standard deduction, lower the top brackets, cut out a lot of deductions to come out revenue neutral.

What’s the big different between that plan, and this plan, other than the party in the white house and congress?

White guy vs. the uppity black guy.

Washington Post editorial: I helped create the GOP tax myth. Trump is wrong: Tax cuts don’t equal growth.

Interesting read.

Very good article; thanks for that wguy.

Pedantic Nitpick: Since the author isn’t a member of the Washington Post editorial board, it’s technically an OP-ed. I wouldn’t have mentioned it, but reading your post made me wonder if the Washington Post had somehow created GOP tax policy.

I’m a (upper?) middleclass guy ($100k<income<$200k) , with kids out of college, zero debt, living a comfortable suburban life. I have NEVER complained about the amount of taxes I pay. I see the value in government services, and appreciate that SOMEONE has to pay for them. My main tax concern is that filling out my taxes oughtn’t be so difficult that my wife and I (both lawyers) oughtn’t have to spend so much time doing it and still end up being unclear on some points.

I have little expectation that any of these changes are going to significantly affect me. With no kids in school and no mortgage, there are very few deductions, etc. which significantly affect our taxes. Moreover, a couple of grand one way or the other isn’t going to affect my lifestyle and future prospects an iota. I suspect MANY folk are in a similar situation. It amazes me when very affluent people comment on being “killed by high taxes!”

Well, having said all of that, this skeleton of a proposal impresses me as quite out-of-context - namely, how much do we want to spend on what, and where are those funds going to come from? I admit I do not like/respect/trust Trump, and have no expectation that he and/or the Repubs are truly interested in helping the middle/lower classes, or hurting the upper class. But for the life of me, I can’t believe why ANYONE still accepts the oft disproved lie that reducing taxes on the wealthiest and corporations, is going to increase tax revenues and support increased governmental expenditures.

I agree as long as the statement is so unnuanced (which it is today in the time of 35% tax brackets). But I’m not so sure that a tax regime of 95% coupled with generous deductions wouldn’t cause people to spend so many unnecessary resources to avoid taxes that it would end up costing the government money as compared to a 70% or so top bracket with fewer deductions. And 70% is also where I’d think that it would start to hurt the economy as a whole rather than just the pockets of the rich: above 70% I think there might actually be a disincentive to invest or work, enough that while it might not hurt government revenues it might still hurt the GDP.

But that’s immaterial when we’re talking 35%-44% rates.

The national debt tripled under reagan. By 1984, it had almost doubled, by the time he was out, it had nearly tripled. Through the bush years it increased, giving clinton a debt that was nearly 5 times that ($907,701,000,000.00 in 1980, 4,064,620,655,521.66 in 1992) that reagan inherited. And that was when republicans were suddenly worried about deficits and debt, so over the 8 years of clinton, the deficits slowly shrank, until in 2000, it was almost even. That was when bush ii came around, and suddenly, we were running half a trillion in deficits again.

He cut taxes massively, and paid for it by running up the debt. That will make you popular, even if the long term consequences are going to be catastrophic.

Tell me, if you tell your kids that you are going to go to the store, and buy them anything they want, and what you can afford is irrelevant, because you go ahold of the credit card, do you think your kids will think they are pretty well off?

Sorry - I definitely could’ve worded that better.

For clarification: The article was written by a domestic policy adviser to President Ronald Reagan who had a hand in the GOP tax cut myth.

I’m pretty sure that Donald Trump doesn’t have a grip on the ways in which the national debt differs from business and personal debts. The concerns me.