[QUOTE=Miller]
Now, is it not possible that, just as a subset of humanity reacts very negatively to the use of alcohol, there can be a subset (even a miniscule one) that can react in a similarly negative fashion to the use of marijuana? Does the fact that a particular illness is very rare somehow make it less real?
[/QUOTE]
Point taken. But would you then allow the possibility that someone who has fucked things up and blames in on a pot addiction may just be using it an excuse for poor choices?
Especially since 99% of users don’t claim its addicitve?-
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
Point taken. But would you then allow the possibility that someone who has fucked things up and blames in on a pot addiction may just be using it an excuse for poor choices?
[/QUOTE]
I’m hardly an expert on addiction, but isn’t admitting that a part of the recovery process for all addicts?
[QUOTE=Miller]
I’m hardly an expert on addiction, but isn’t admitting that a part of the recovery process for all addicts?
[/QUOTE]
I gather it was also an effective part of the recovery process of Salem witches.
[QUOTE=begbert2]
I gather it was also an effective part of the recovery process of Salem witches.
[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry, I don’t follow your point.
[QUOTE=Miller]
I’m hardly an expert on addiction, but isn’t admitting that a part of the recovery process for all addicts?
[/QUOTE]
Sure, but the only person I have known or seen who has claimed a pot addiciton is the chick from last nights VH1 celebrity rehab trainwreck, whose thread is the genesis of the OP. In it, some no name grade Z actress who turned to porn after her tiny career dried up and who maybe one person out of 1000 knows who she is, is claiming a pot addicition. The entire thing struck me as- no name actress wants to revive her mainstream career, hears about celebrity rehab and smokes pot and the only way to get on the show, or any show, is to make up an addicition to it.
We see “secret hidden cameras” following the other real addicts (coke, crack, booze, etc.) at various time passed out, incoherent, jonesing, and generally making asses out of themselves. What horrors do we see Miss Pot Addict go through- laughing on the coach, getting stoned with a friend. Her mom is shown being concerned about the state of lungs- sure, her lungs are probably worse than someone who chain smokes fiberglass insulation, but other than that, she is not once seen showing any signs of real drug addiciton. Her mom also adds that she’s worried about her dying- overly dramatic shit, because addcitive or not, there’s not a single case of a pot OD on record.
And I’ve yet to see anyone in this thread or the other one, of the tens of thousnads of members, agree with Dr Drew from actual experience, as opposed to citing what a doctor said.
[QUOTE=Miller]
I’m sorry, I don’t follow your point.
[/QUOTE]
You can’t reasonably claim that it’s good for a person to admit they have a problem until you’re certain that the person actually does have a problem of the type you’re trying to get them to admit to. Persuading them to concede a problem they don’t actually have will do nothing for them, and benefit you only if you have something to gain from getting them to admit “guilt”.
[QUOTE=begbert2]
You can’t reasonably claim that it’s good for a person to admit they have a problem until you’re certain that the person actually does have a problem of the type you’re trying to get them to admit to. Persuading them to concede a problem they don’t actually have will do nothing for them, and benefit you only if you have something to gain from getting them to admit “guilt”.
[/QUOTE]
…okay?
[QUOTE=Mytoehurts]
Actually there are plenty of recreational heroin users out there, and millions who take cocaine without much difficulty.
Certainly, physical addiction exists; it is, however, medically quite easy to treat. But real addiction comes essentially from weak mindedness, and I have no sympathy for addicts whatsoever except in the sense that I feel sorry that most are under pressure not to take drugs when they know in their hearts that taking them is fine.
Incidentally, out of all the drugs that I have taken (and I’m under the influence of a couple right now) cannabis has been the worst for affecting my mind outside of taking it - it slows me mentally for weeks. I don’t think anything else that I have taken has anything like as long lasting side effects (maybe valium, but I only took that once or twice).
[/QUOTE]
I think that your take is way off base with regards to heroin and cocaine affecting only the “weak-minded” in an addictive way, and your own admission that you are currently under the influence of a couple of drugs is clouding your judgement of reality.
[QUOTE=Ghanima]
I think pot is as addictive as sugar or sex or chocolate. In other words, relatively easy to kick but addictive nonetheless.
[/QUOTE]
Heh, if sex is easy to kick, you’re not doing it right. 
I’ve known too many pot addicts to think that pot isn’t addictive. I’ve recently given it up, but I felt like I was pretty addicted for a while. Never was my drug of choice though.
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief]
Where it gets habit forming is when it starts replacing the other positive things in your life. You start smoking pot, gradually you get out of the habit of doing anything pleasurable or maintaining friendships. .
[/QUOTE]
To be honest, this is the truth about many drugs aside from pot. Heroin, in fact, is, on its face, harmless to the body. The reason opiod drugs are dangerous is because they are usually cut with acetaminophin, which is can be fatal with even one extra does (CAN be, not IS). The opiates themselves do nothing but produce euphoria and increase endorphins. It’s when you stop eating meals or showering, or going to work or surviving on nothing but candy and juice because the sugar gives you a similar rush that you run into trouble.
The bottom line is that we can make almost anything physically dangerous depending on how far we take it.
[QUOTE=fatgail]
To be honest, this is the truth about many drugs aside from pot. Heroin, in fact, is, on its face, harmless to the body. The reason opiod drugs are dangerous is because they are usually cut with acetaminophin, which is can be fatal with even one extra does (CAN be, not IS). The opiates themselves do nothing but produce euphoria and increase endorphins.
[/quote]
I agree with the spirit of the post but you’re wrong about heroin/opioid withdrawal. Although not life-threatening, it is physical agony, and that’s not an urban legend. I do agree that getting hooked on heroin is not the instant whammy that is commonly thought, but once it happens, it’s for serious.
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief]
I agree with the spirit of the post but you’re wrong about heroin/opioid withdrawal. Although not life-threatening, it is physical agony, and that’s not an urban legend. I do agree that getting hooked on heroin is not the instant whammy that is commonly thought, but once it happens, it’s for serious.
[/QUOTE]
Wait, what? I never said the withdrawal wasn’t physical agony. It’s awful. That’s what I’ve been arguing all day. Withdrawal from opiates is a nightmare I’ve lived through. I quit taking 400mgs of oxycontin cold turkey and was told that I could have suffered a heart attack or stroke because of it. But that’s not because the drug was damaging my body, it’s because my body was used to processing it, using it to block pain, elevate my mood and increase my endorphins. I’ve recently had tests done on my liver, blood and heart tests and there is no residual damage from the drug.
I was responding to the idea that marijuana is unique in it’s ‘generally’ harmless properties. A lot of drugs are physically harmless until you train your body to be dependent on them. Other drugs, like MDMA, crack, can kill you the first time you take it.
[QUOTE=fatgail]
Wait, what? I never said the withdrawal wasn’t physical agony. It’s awful. That’s what I’ve been arguing all day. Withdrawal from opiates is a nightmare I’ve lived through. I quit taking 400mgs of oxycontin cold turkey and was told that I could have suffered a heart attack or stroke because of it. But that’s not because the drug was damaging my body, it’s because my body was used to processing it, using it to block pain, elevate my mood and increase my endorphins.
[/QUOTE]
I guess you and I have different definitions of ‘harmless’ then, although I’m glad you weren’t permanently damaged. My point is that marijuana is like 100 times less harmful than what you’ve described above.
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief]
I guess you and I have different definitions of ‘harmless’ then, although I’m glad you weren’t permanently damaged. My point is that marijuana is like 100 times less harmful than what you’ve described above.
[/QUOTE]
I think what you’re trying to say is that the WITHDRAWAL from marijuana is 100 times more harmless. The WITHDRAWAL from caffeine is also pure agony, but coffee is even more harmless than weed.
[QUOTE=fatgail]
Wait, what? I never said the withdrawal wasn’t physical agony. It’s awful. That’s what I’ve been arguing all day. Withdrawal from opiates is a nightmare I’ve lived through. I quit taking 400mgs of oxycontin cold turkey and was told that I could have suffered a heart attack or stroke because of it. But that’s not because the drug was damaging my body, it’s because my body was used to processing it, using it to block pain, elevate my mood and increase my endorphins. I’ve recently had tests done on my liver, blood and heart tests and there is no residual damage from the drug.
[/QUOTE]
Opioids don’t increase endorphins, they take the place of endorphins and cause the body to drastically lower endorphin production*. That’s one of the reasons withdrawal is so unpleasant; you have no more exogenous opioids and your endorphins are practically nonexistent, so things hurt a lot more than they do ordinarily.
[QUOTE=chorpler]
Opioids don’t increase endorphins, they take the place of endorphins and cause the body to drastically lower endorphin production*. That’s one of the reasons withdrawal is so unpleasant; you have no more exogenous opioids and your endorphins are practically nonexistent, so things hurt a lot more than they do ordinarily.
.
[/QUOTE]
hey! you learn something every day. I’ve also heard that it will be quite a while before I feel things ‘correctly’. I still have incongruous reactions to things, like my husband coming home with news of a promotion and I burst out crying. the doctor said I was so used to receiving ‘false’ signals of euphoria and pleasure that my body doesn’t know how to do it anymore. ugh.
I’ve got a pretty bad addiction. Sometimes it’s worse than others, but at its worst, it’s very disruptive. When I get out of bed in the morning, I start thinking about it. I’ll sometimes indulge in the morning, making me almost late for work. When I get home, I can’t wait to do it again. There are so many other productive things I could be doing, but I don’t. Even when I stop, an hour or two later I start thinking I need more.
Someone really needs to ban The Straight Dope for my own good.
Pot is not habit forming. Nor is it particularly destructive physically. I know people who have been smoking pot heavily their entire adult lives, and there’s no outward signs of it. On the other hand, I also know some lifelong alcoholics, and they are physically and mentally destroyed by their addiction. My father was an alcoholic, and he was infirm by the time he was 55, and dead by 65 - at which time he looked like an old, beat-down drunk. His brain was clearly operating at about half speed, his speech was always slurred, he walked with a slow shuffle, etc.
If we could get all the alcoholics to switch to pot, they would be much, much better off. So many talk about legalized marijuana being a gateway drug to harder things - but what if it’s the opposite? What if legalized marijuana makes alcohol less desirable? How many people drink to get high, and would gladly smoke pot to get high instead if they could get it legally?
Also, I’ve never seen anyone smoke pot and beat their wives or get in fights in bars. Alcohol makes some people aggressive. Pot just makes them giggle and eat Cheetos.
Of course, we might have a bigger obesity problem… But still - I wish we would just recognize as a society that many people will continue to alter their consciousnesses in any way they can, so we might as well legalize the one drug that seems to have the least amount of long-term symptoms.
Yes, pot can be mentally addictive. So can watching television, and I’ll bet if you added up all the hours in America spent watching sitcoms and mindless dramas, it’d be a hell of a lot more than the hours spent smoking pot.
When alcoholics switch to pot it’s called "Joining the Marijuana Maintenance Program" - basically they give up one crutch for another and is not recommended. Addicts will and often do treat pot [even if it is the only thing they do] like any other addictive substance - they use it in place of emotions and feelign that they ought to be having and experiencing.
All that being said, if I were to choose, I would say Pot is much "better" for you than alcohol less destructive on your emotions IMHO and is less likely to pickle you over time.
I have seen many people die horrid deathes from alcoholism and I would not wish it upon my worse enemy. Being someone who has a problem with alcohol and who chose a program of recovery over a life less desirable, I adhere to a strict regime of eating right and exercising to get rid of the anxiety I used to have to drink away with a martini or 4 every night.
I’m quite liberal and choose not to disassociate myself with those in my circle of friends who smoke pot, I smoked for many years and I really love my relationships with friends…I don’t really care at all that they smoke pot.
Smoking Pot is incredibly bad for you in the long run. Inhaling smoke into your lungs is just bad for you. That’s a reality. Your lungs get damaged and you can take less air into your lungs. They aren’t meant to be forced to filter out that much particulate matter on a daily basis.