The asshattery of "100 calorie packs"

Okay, first off–can I make it clear that I’m female? Not that it matters in any substantive way, but it does make it easier for y’all to pick the right invective, just sayin’.

Forum Bot, I’m not into parsing as an activity because it’s hard to read and tends to get bogged down into forest/trees issues pretty quickly. I would like to point out, though, that of the posts you were addressing only one was actually directed to you, the others were responding to Frylock and Renob. One of my objections to parsing is that it’s all too easy to elide several posts as though they were all one–which has indeed occurred in this case.

Frylock pointed out, and rightly so, that I kinda came out of left field with my first response and that I was perhaps a tad more heated than was strictly necessary, to the detriment of my argument. I was trying to amplify further my objections to corporate irresponsibility and the abdication of personal responsibility in favor of the nebulous and possibly nonexistent “they” that’s been occupying quite a bit of my mind lately. Not any of your guy’s fault, it just kinda happened here.

Specifically with regards to the subject of overeating and overweight I have grave concerns with the way that such items as “100 calorie packs” are marketed. It was pointed out that the 100 calorie Oreo is not the same critter as the regular one–but nobody seemed to be concerned about the fact that Nabisco has come up with what appears to be a lower calorie cookie alternative, which it isn’t, really–the packaging says that a serving is 22g, slightly less than an ounce, and per this calorie counter siteit appears that pretty much any chocolate wafer cookie would have about the same calorie count. So basically you could just as easily scrape the goo off a regular Oreo and calorie wise an ounce would be the same as eating the prepackaged ones. Instead, we have six little packages, put into a cardboard box–overpackaged. Now it appears that the little snacky cookies have a shell of some kind of candy on them, I surmise to make them more “Oreo-like.” So my question here is, why isn’t Nabisco marketing these just in a nice box with a pound of them as an alternative to regular Oreos? Why can’t you get those unique items in any other way than overpackaged?

Answer, in my opinion, is that they’re trying to market these specifically as a diet food and aiming it at overweight people who want no-think portion control. The fact that it’s MORE PROFITABLE to them to market it this way couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the decision, right? Selling a package (and the outside packaging is pretty large) that only contains less than five ounces of actual product for the same price as a 12 oz package of regular cookies strikes me as a total scam. Going for a niche market pays. Being part of a targeted niche market costs.

Food companies make disproportionate amounts of money off of the weight conscious and brand conscious consumer. I’ve watched the bins of bulk foods being refilled at the local Winco–yup, a large proportion of the boxes are name brands of cereal, biscuit mix, snack food, candy, you name it. But it’s cheaper–and a large reason why it’s cheaper is that the perception is that bulk foods aren’t as good as those in packaging with the name on the front. Packaging sells–but doesn’t it make more sense to get educated so you can enjoy the same food without the higher cost AND with the little eco-bump of avoiding the overpackaging? Not to mention maybe I don’t WANT a whole pound of candy–just a little bit. Why should we be penalized in the pocket if we want a smaller serving WITHOUT the corporate decision makers deciding for us what that serving will be?

There are other forms of marketing that concern me as well–cookies that have “NO FAT!! LOWER FAT!! NO TRANS FAT!!” emblazoned all over the package–does it make sense to demonize one source of calories but totally ignore the others? Just the way that the Bleu Cheese salad dressing in the fridge has a large blazon “0 CARBS!!” but never a mention of the 16g of fat and 170 calories in the (2 tbsp) serving. It’s encouraging people to focus on one thing while hiding the whole picture–that eating too much of ANYTHING is bad for you and will make you fat. Well, unless it’s celery–that’ll just get you malnourished! But skinny. Very skinny.

Why are people so hung up on these ridiculous marketing tricks? In one of the few really great consumer protection moves ever the Federal government requires that all food have a label which clearly states the serving size, the calories per serving, the percentages of RDA of essential nutrients and every single ingredient that goes into the product. It’s all RIGHT THERE! All anyone has to do is look at it and decide whether or not it’s a good move for them to buy or eat it.

So basically it seems to me that there is a whole lot of abdication going on over choices we as sovereign humans ought to be making for ourselves. It goes way beyond the supermarket, although there are enough egregious examples there to keep anybody busy for months. For just one example, why are the small diesel engined cars that are readily available in the EU and UK not available here? It’s nothing to do with safety regulations–many EU/UK model cars end up rebadged as domestic models. Could the oil lobby have anything to do with it?

We’re letting corporations get away with murder, letting them off the hook when they befoul our environment and poison us and then so many of us come to their defense and say it’s necessary to let them do whatever they want without accountablility because to do otherwise will result in some nebulous unspecified economic harm that nobody can really quantify. We let the government loosen environmental regulations on corporations while voluntarily taking on ourselves the responsibility to improve our own little corners of the world–kinda like donating to charity while Dubya gives 15 billion dollar tax cuts to corporations.

I guess I just don’t understand why, in a world where so many decisions are made for us without our knowledge or consent, we would voluntarily give away any of our precious sovereignty–but that’s what I see when I see those goddamned 100 calorie packs of Oreos.

Yeah, I realize that it’s a bit ridiculous and I’m making gallons of stew from one oyster but sometimes that’s all it takes–the single particle in a supersaturated solution that forces crystallization. The straw that breaks the camel’s back. That one guy yelling “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not gonna take it any more!” It’s different for all of us, and for me, just recently, an epiphany is occurring. Unfortunately epiphanies, like sudden attacks of nausea, don’t always occur in appropriate places or times. Apparently both can also result in unintended messes–I really didn’t intend to offend anyone on a personal level and if I’ve done so here I sincerely apologize.

Oh, I get it. You’re lazy and have poor reading comprehension. That explains a lot.

What has that got to do anything? If you treasure your ignorance so much, you should talk to them in the private channels this board offers, where you’re less likely to bother someone who knows what the fuck they’re talking about.

Sorry, I hope that wasn’t too hard to follow. I know you have ever so much trouble.

Well see now you just went and pissed off ForumBot and in some ways I can’t blame him/her. I agree in essence with your message, but the way you played it was a bit over the top and not conducive to your message being received. Your rant in the other BBQ thread is more appropriately placed in my opinion and is on topic.

Here you come off very moralistic and judgemental–and probably very hypocritical if you actually examined your own life. I am sure if you hunt through your life there are many areas in which you could do better–you had a thread awhile back in which you praised the virtue of B&J pints of ice cream, I only remember because it had the typical bulllshit holier then thou attitude by that bitch **Quiddity Glomfuster ** who used to post here! (and frankly I was wondering if you or NightRabbit were her so I did a search!)

But how are B&J pints a great choice and these 100 calorie packs so evil? I am very height weight proportional and you already stated you are heavy—so why aren’t you hwp if it is so easy? Because it is not easy, not by a long shot. Why buy those convenient pints when you can buy a similar product in a larger container. Could it possibly be that you actually LIKE the product and that the pint limits how much you can eat?

I do think people make excuses and there is way too much product packaging and product promotion and well fuck everything. It drives me crazy and I certainly can understand your frustration–but hell if you want to convert someone to your line of reasoning chewing their ass out over a cookie choice seems a poor way to do it. By virtue of what I do for a living I tend to be very Green in my life–and my wife is even more so then I am. But it took awhile for me to get here and it will take awhile to get more people here. Ranting and denigrating other peoples choices when we have skeletons in our own closets seems counter productive—and trust me there are many many many ways I could improve my own committment to the environment. But I also recognize it isn’t an easy task—easier said then done.

I am reading a wonderful book right now called FatLand by Greg Crister–I would recommend it to anyone who is battling their weight. It is an interesting case he makes about how this country became fat and the issues dealing with it. The studies noted by ForumBot have validity and there are numerous studies that show people need help with portion control. Stating ‘buy a bigger package and divide it’ doesn’t work–you can rant all you want that all it takes is self control, but the science doesn’t back you up. But then why haven’t you done it yourself? I have–I watch my portions very much, exercise three times a week with my wife and daughter and I will tell you right off–it is fucking hard work.

Self control is the answer and like all things in life we are all somewhere on the spectrum. Some people (like myself) can easily proportion the amount from a bag of cookies or chips out of a bag–most people can’t. Countless studies have proven this. If some people need the bag to be exactly the portion size until they can get a handle on it–who are you or I to determine this isn’t right.

NightRabbits’ position is too fucking stupid to even address–but then again this is the same poster who was trying to dictate peoples choices when to get married, and other choices they make in their own life. At least your message is a valid one about the environment, but in my opinion your choice to use this thread as your vehicle was poorly placed—the other pit thread about the large garbage floating island is a much better placement.

But keep up the good fight–but damn, let people struggling with their weight have the cookies! :slight_smile:

But this is essence what people in this thread are saying isn’t it. They don’t want the two pound bag of cookies. And eating 2 Oreos isn’t satisfying (well I don’t personally like oreos, but I would imagine that is the case). Part of the fulfillment is the idea that you ate an actual portion, two cookies just don’t cut it for most people. Your brain hasn’t registered that you ate yet, but eating the little cookies over time your brain registers that you ate and you are sated.

So you quickly consume the two cookies, then you have this huge bag of cookies in the other room calling your name as you walk by— "psstt…come here…one cookie isn’t going to hurt you…well you are here…have a couple more…there are plenty…no one but you and I have to know’ I can guarantee there isn’t a person on this site who has struggled with weight who hasn’t talked to a bag of cookies! :wink:

Or you package them up in individual packages—how does that help your cause? Now I have 30-40 little bags to throw away.

Maybe these people don’t want a whole bag of cookies–just a little bit. Interesting thought no?

If you buy the idea that buying 100 calorie packs of ANYTHING will save ANYONE’S life a significant amount of time, then you’re too stupid to address.

Why does it matter so much to you what people choose to spend their money on? There’s no snark and I’m not preparing any sort of semantic trap. I just wanna know.

Thanks. I put a significant amount of time into my posts in this thread and having someone so casually blow them off as being too “hard to read” (I think I have a rather clear writing voice, actually) just steams my clams.

You do know how to read right? Read FatLand and you might educate yourself a bit–you should have the time right now since you are underemployed. Provide some cites that prove your position…oh wait, there isn’t anything is there.

Tell me, are you height weight proportional? If not–why not? You seem to think that weight loss is so easy (just like you seem to think everything is so easily solved with your little diatribes you have posted). And if you are height weight proportional you honestly can’t understand how someone struggling with weight issues might find the pre portioned package helpful?

If a person ate two additional oreo cookies a day for a month he would gain nearly a pound if he didn’t increase his calorie expenditure. Two cookies are 50 calories (if I recall correctly), so 100x30=3000 calories. A pound of fat is something like 3500 calories. Now losing that weight will greatly increase a lifetime-unless you have a study that contradicts this I am left to assume you are pulling your argument out of your ass again. Do you honestly need me to find a study that proves losing 8-10 pounds a year will increase your life?

I just want to chime in that Renob spelled backwards is “Boner.” I wonder if that’s intentional.

I understand, but I do also see her point. I prefer not to respond via parsing because I lose the train of thought and it seems you start nit picking the responses. I do think she has a point about the environmental impact but this thread just doesn’t seem to be the appropriate place to make such a vehement charge in my opinion.

It just bothers me when people give obviously bullshit reasons for doing whatever they’re doing after someone DEIGNS to question their priorities. It’s perfectly fine to say, “I have no snack budget, and it keeps me from eating more, and I don’t really think about the price”. But to cite that you’re doing it to save time? I don’t believe FOR A SECOND that that factors anywhere in their minds as they go down the grocery store aisle and pass the cookies. “Well, I do believe buying the prepackaged will give me 15 minutes tonight that I could spend with my boyfriend!” Seriously. Just tell the fucking truth.

Okay, all I said was that I don’t like PARSING because it’s hard to read. I have no problems with iterative posts arranged in paragraphs, but the endless series of

Commentary followed by

Is a real bear to follow, especially when

it then appears they all come from one post and quite often the sense gets lost in the damned

Nothing personal here, as I already attempted to make clear.

Hakuna Matata I even said as much, that my message was getting caught up and subsumed in the medium. My major crank right now is abdication of responsibilities in general in favor of leaving such basic things as health and well being in the hands of those who do NOT have our best interests in mind.

My point is (and I could swear I addressed it somewhere) is that we as individuals should make our own decisions regarding such things as portion sizes and how much packaging we’re willing to tolerate. If I buy a snack in bulk, keep it in that one bag, then dispense single portions into either a reusable (and in my case, multiply reused) ziplock bag or tupperware container or just into a washable bowl then I am deciding not only how much I originally buy, but also how much packaging I’m willing to use and/or discard. Maybe the manufacturer ONLY sells things in one pound or larger packages, maybe they only sell things in ridiculously overpackaged tiny servings–I just want to be the one who decides how much food I buy and how packaged it is because I don’t trust the corporations to do it for me. I also think it’s dangerous to allow too many decisions to be left to mindless aggregations of profit mongers whose only drive is to make more money at my and the planet’s expense.

Yes, I do fight my weight a bit–it’s more along the lines of that cursed twenty pounds that women my age tend to struggle with, but at one point it was a lot worse. One of the reasons I gained weight was that I felt powerless in my life and that extended to my eating habits. I felt that it was hopeless to even try to control my eating because dieting is impossible–and it is! My turning point came when I realized that I was digging my grave with a spoon and that there were lots of corporations encouraging me to eat too much of the wrong things, then trying to sell me diets and food fads to take off the weight caused by their original messages. I blamed others for my own choices, and even though some of that blame was valid and targeted correctly I finally realized it DIDN’T MATTER.

I realized that I had to correct the bad relationship I had in my head between food, reward, comfort and entitlement. That I had to stop thinking of healthy food as a punishment that I had to endure in order to reward myself with some crappy snacky cake. That I had to stop thinking of exercise as a penance and a burden that I had to endure in order to “deserve” eating something nasty and fat laden. The more I realigned my thinking, the more weight I lost, the better I felt and looked and the happier I became.

Do I relapse? Sure I do. Right now the weather is horrible and rainy and cold and crappy and I’ve been laid off from my job and I’m fighting depression. I keep thinking I want to go buy the whole goddamned bakery section of the local grocery store and pile it around me and eat it until I explode. However, I don’t do it and a really big reason I refrain is that I just can’t stand to give those motherfuckers the power over my gut again. Pure, unadulterated stubbornness.

So my point in here, and I’m damned if I’m going to apologize AGAIN for my cack-handedness of presentation, is that I’m pissed about the power we give away so freely to those who aren’t going to use it wisely. I’m tired of the excuses I hear from so many people about so many issues and most of the time I can keep my emotional distance and fight the good fight–I just keep on plugging trying to reason with the unreasonable and help those who fight any help. Unfortunately, the issue of food, overeating and power is one that’s too close to home and I lost my detachment.

I should really know better than to follow politics AND the Dope in the same time frame–that way lies madness and gun barrel fellatio!

SmartAleq
we cool :slight_smile: I really suggest you get the book I quoted above. He makes a very plausible argument for the obesity in this country. He also takes to task big corporations–I think you would enjoy the book. And as I said before, keep up the good fight!

Dude, at this point I’m afraid if I get one more thing in my head that outrages me I’m going to lose my rag completely and they’ll have to shoot me down off the clock tower! I’ve filed the reference, though, for the next time I feel up to some bad news.

On the plus side, I just finished P.J. O’Rourke’s commentary on Adam Smith’s The Wealth of Nations so I’m kvelling a bit over how badly those fucking 'pubbies have misunderstood the book many of them quote like inspired scripture.

Schadenfreude–better than Prozac! :smiley:

Here’s the truth, I see them, I think “cool, I haven’t seen those before, and how convenient”.

Also, I notice that you haven’t answered anyone’s question about why this bothers you so much (not even my eleventy seven times I asked you why you cared).

People who choose to spend their money on a convenience item have been called stupid, stupefyingly lazy, losers and so on. And now you insist that no one could possibly be buying items to save time, that they’re lying if they say so.

And then, to top that off, you’ve set an arbitrary amount of time that it “only” takes to make home-made snack packs. In your superior vast amount of knowledge, it OF COURSE only takes 5 minutes, since you made such a big deal of some other poster not possibly having time to make love thanks to 100 calorie packs.

In my previous post I posted regarding not being lazy, but now I’m afraid I’ll have to cop to being stupid. Again, I don’t know where you got that it only takes 5 minutes to prepare and package up snacks, but I decided to time it and give it a shot.

I have (okay had, after this experiment they mysteriously disappeared :D), a box of Parmesan Garlic Cheezits.

Time spent figuring out which cupboard I stashed them in after this weekend: 30 seconds.

Reading the label. .0002 seconds (way better at reading than I am at math).

A serving size is 150 calories, and according to the box that is about 25 crackers.

Time spent trying to find my calculator (I Double SUCK at doing math in my head, hence the stupid part): 5 minutes.

Time spent trying to do the math in my head: add another 5 minutes

Crackers end up being about 6 calories a piece

Time spent doing the math in my head to figure out how many crackers that REALLY is to add up to a 100 calorie home-made snack pack: add on another 2 minutes.

Unless I’m wrong, and when it comes to math, especially math in my head, that’s more than possible…I need 16 and 2/3s of a cracker to make up a 100 calorie pack.

Time to take down and pretend to put 16 and 2/3s crackers (NO idea how to get that 2/3 of a cracker, and I sure don’t want a bunch of crumbs all over that I have to clean up, and I’m not wasting perfectly clean snack baggies either!) into 5 snack baggies. Add on about 5 minutes. Time to clean up and put it all away including the pretend calculator: add on 2 minutes.

Time estimated to figure out calorie value and put together 5 lunch packs is about 15 minutes. Not enough time to make love (at least not with the excellent example my last boyfriend set), but a goodly amount of time to do things a lot more interesting that count calories and clean cracker crumbs off of the counter.
And if you’re talking snacks that aren’t easily divided up and counted like little crackers, such as say…Chips Ahoy chunky, then the time spent trying to make those snack packs would be more time-intensive, not to mention much messier.

Chunky Chips Ahoy are 150 calories a serving, but the serving size is 2 cookies. So (and again, my math is likely shaky here), that means that a home-made snack pack with Chunky Chips Ahoy is 1 cookie and 1/3 of a cookie. Only with Chunky Chips Ahoy, you wouldn’t really have 1 and 1/3 of a cookie, you’d have a little pile 'o cookie comprised of Cookie crumb units (Cu), Cookie Chunk units (CCHu) and a whole cookie unit (WhCu). Not very appetizing looking smashed all over the inside of a snack baggie, and how exactly does one eat Cookie Crumb Units, with a spoon?

And there’d be all of those chocolate smears to clean off of the cutting board. And while that goooey…decadent half melted choco chunk is really, really yummy, I have a sneaking suspicion that the tiny little dry chocolate looking bits that are in the tiny 100 calorie pack choco-chip cookies are probably just somewhat on the lower fat side than the ones in the real Chunky Chips Ahoy.

And there isn’t a whole lot in the world that is LESS pleasant and LESS interesting than attempting math. Not to mention, after a day standing on my feet all day, the LAST thing I want to do is spend 10 or 20 more minutes standing in the kitchen.

Times that 10 minutes times different snacks, and every week, and across the board if you have family members to also make lunch for? (to be a good sport, I’m subtracting the 5 it would take to find the calculator, to be fair, I’d only have to do that once, if I were truly motivated to only use home-made snack packs). Yeah, it’s a time-saver.

You’re really being very silly, controlling and judgmental here, no one is this thread is arguing that thanks to 100 calorie packs, they can now write the all-American novel, or solve world hunger. Time saved is time saved whether it’s a mere 5 minutes, or closer to how much time preparation would really take.

So why do you keep insisting that there’s no way these are being bought because they save time? Or that saving time is somehow lazy, stupid, irresponsible and loser-ish?

I make no apologies for eating 100 calorie packs. I’ll continue to buy them and enjoy them. If it bugs you, then that’s just an added benefit.

Since at times others have suggested other types of convenience items I am going to chime in and say there was a time in my life that I did buy snack size items to save time.

In my case it was those little bags of chips and it was years ago when my kids were little.

Those did save me time when it came to packing lunches. It was hard enough to get kids up, dressed and on to school in a certain amount of time and the snack chips were easier and used up less time. I could just grab one and throw it in the lunch bag.

I guess you could suggest that I should have bought a big bag and then sit on a Sunday night and sort them all into ziploc bags but then I guess that would take away the time I spent with my children.

So they not only saved me time but freed up time for other activities.

In my mind the 100 calorie packs are no different than snack chips or pudding cups but for slightly different reasons. They are a convenience item that although they might be a little more expensive they do free up time in our lives to do other things.

I hate one thing about 100 calorie packs (as I do not use them, as I highly dislike eating cakes or cookies or the like): there are 100 calorie pack, heavily advertised Jello pudding cups, nicely the same amount of pudding you get for the greater-than-100 calorie pack…but if you find the sugar free Splenda Jello pudding cups, again the same size, same flavors…they are 60 calories per cup. But not advertised, no special notation on the box other than “sugar free.” I am sure people buy more of the “100 CALORIE PACK!!!” in the bright colors and get the same pudding amount I get for 60 calories.

But that just means my 60 calorie cups are more in stock and available in nicer flavors than the few packages left of the 100 calorie cups. Benefit: Me.

The only person who has your best interest in mind is you. I hate it when people start talking about how corporations don’t have our best interest in mind. No fucking shit. By saying that, though, you basically expose yourself as lacking even the most basic understanding of economics. Businessmen are governed by self-interest. However, in order to serve their self-interest (make money) they must serve your self-interest. They only get rich by providing goods and services that people want and need. The owner of my local gas station can hate my guts, but he still provides gasoline to me at a price I’m willing to pay. His intentions are completely irrelevant.

People who buy 100-calorie packs certainly seem to me to be “making their own decisions regarding such things as portion size.” And as far as how much packaging we are willing to tolerate, that’s pretty irrelevant for most people. There is no shortage of landfill space and packaging isn’t destroying the world. I know you believe in the pseudo-scientific theory that plastic is killing us, but most people don’t seem to think there’s much truth to that.

It seems to you that means anyone who makes different decisions than you. Anyone whose preferences don’t align with yours isn’t using their power to make decisions “wisely.” Whatever. Since you’ve already admitted you’re overweight, it’s obvious that by your logic I (as a normal weight person) should be making your decisions for you. After all, you’ve proven that you can’t use your power to make decisions for yourself wisely, right?

It certainly is.

So. I’m headed out from work yesterday. Passing by the security station, I offer my usual farewell to the guard. She says to me, “Want a cookie?”, and reaches into a bag. What does she pull out?

You guessed it, a 100-calorie Oreo Chewy Granola Bar! Quite the co inky dink, seeing as how I read this thread the previous evening. I didn’t bother explaining the huge grin on my face when I accepted the proffered snack. Pretty tasty, it was.