So there’s this kid that has been in my son’s pre-school and elementary school classes since he was 3. The kid was an asshole when he was 3* and he is a hyperactive asshole now.** He has known this kid most of his life and wants nothing to do with him, but this kid has no friends and has gotten it in his head that because my son has been in the same class with him a few times, that means they are best friends.
For several years, I assumed that a kid this horrible must have horrible parents. But no, they’re relatively cool, they just don’t seem to know how to control their child. I hang out with some people I wouldn’t otherwise hang out with because my kid and their kid are friends, these parents would not be a chore to hang out with. But their son is intolerable and they just stand there and ignore him when he is being a pain in everyone’s ass.
These folks need to reassess their philosophy on raising children because the hands off approach is not working with this particular child.
*The kid is big for his age and at 3 he was the size of a kindergartner. He was a horrible bully and I have seen him throw small girls on the ground and kick them while they were down because they had something he wanted. Even at 3, most kids know better than this.
**The kid whines about everything and cries when he doesn’t get to be first in line or if he can’t “express himself” by running around and jumping on tables during an organized activity where everyone is doing the same thing. And he is pushy.
OK, full disclosure, I’m not a parent and I don’t know very many parents of small children.
That said, no parent who ignores in his child the kind of behavior you describe is “cool” by any stretch. If you are an adult, you take the child* to get whatever medical or emotional help he needs, and in the meantime you don’t let the child wreak havoc in other peoples’ lives. If you are not an adult, you have no business having children even if you are “cool” in some mysterious and undefined way.
*And/or you take yourself to get whatever help you need to deal with a difficult child. You don’t just give up because you don’t know how to deal with him.
Even leaving aside their laissez-faire attitude towards discipline, these parents might not be as “cool” as you think. Sadists and sociopaths are among the most charming people you’ll ever meet.
As the parent of a difficult child who surely has been labelled “the asshole kid” more than once, this makes me a little sad.
Not knowing any of the details of what the parents are or aren’t doing (it sounds like you don’t socialize with them, so most of the behaviour described is happening at school?) it’s hard to say whether I agree with Roderick Femm or not. I do agree that parents need to get their kids and themselves whatever help and support is needed, but sometimes that is happening more than is evident to the casual observer, so saying the parents can’t possibly be cool if they ignore the kid acting up might be a little harsh.
OP, does the dad literally stand there and do nothing while his kid is physically assaulting other kids? Or are you assuming he’s doing nothing based on the way the kid behaves at school? Or does he stand there and ignore the other behaviours you described, aside from the physical violence? It can be more complicated than you might know, from the outside. Maybe befriending this family is exactly what they need – they could be going through more than you realize, and no matter how big of a jerk you think that kid is, he’s still a friendless kid with issues, and that’s really sad.
Yeah; sometimes you do your best as a parent, and your kid just inexplicably doesn’t get it, despite whatever logical explanations, punishments, rewards and everything else you try. Children aren’t little robots who you program just so, and they go act according to that programming. They have all (and more of) the misinterpretations, confusion, emotions, and everything else that adults have, and whatever you say as a parent gets filtered through all that, so that despite your best efforts, sometimes it just may take your kid a while to figure it out for themselves.
I mean my son just loses his shit at other kids sometimes, and my wife and I are entirely baffled as to why he got upset about what he did, and why he overreacted like he did. We don’t let him get away with it, but it’s not a parenting failure on our part (that we can determine) that he acts the way he does.
Now if the parents are literally ignoring their kid while he runs rampant, that’s not cool. But if they correct him, punish him, etc… and he continues to be a dick, it may be the kid. Or it may be some kind of subtle thing that they’re doing that is counterproductive that they’re not even aware of.
If it’s been several years since he was three, he’s what? About seven? Still time to grow and grow up, as my mother used to say. Maybe a little early to be called an asshole.
My father was a scoutmaster before and for a while after I was born, and coached farm, little, and youth league baseball when I was a kid. He made kind of a practice of making sure that the kids nobody else wanted for whatever reason, including behavioral problems, ended up with him. This did not always thrill me. This did not ever bother my father. Anyhow, I can’t think of too many times when inclusion improved these kids to any great extent. But I can’t think of any instances when it made things any worse.
If your son can stand it, you can. If the experiment fails, at least the cool parents might get to see it fail, and that might help a little.
I used to be a daycare teacher, and I’ve said the following many times: you cannot tell how a child will behave by their parents’ behavior, and vice versa. Kids are born with a certain attitude, and there is little a parent can do to change or contain this. I’ve seen kids with crazy, neglectful parents who are the sweetest, most well-adjusted kids, and I’ve seen involved, caring, attentive parents with kids bouncing off walls or routinely collapsing from self-doubt and low self-esteem.
You may have parents who are just tired of trying. They’ve done all they can do or know how to do, and it hasn’t worked, so they throw in the towel for their own sanity.
Don’t judge a parent by their child. That could have been your kid, and you wouldn’t have deserved it any more that they did.
My boy is 3. There was a kid in his class who was way bigger and a bully to everyone else. The daycare moved him up a couple classes so he was in with bigger kids. It seems to have worked. Now that he can’t bully the other kids he seems to have given up on bullying everyone else.
You might try talking to them about the problem and suggest to them that they put their kid in a traditional martial arts class (not MMA). The constant emphasis on discipline and focus will do wonders for the kid.
My second cousin’s kid was super hyper-active, a real PITA, normal middle aged guy now. Let’s not go onto a sidetrack of whether the psych/pharma industry can actually solve these problems with their magic potions, without eventually making it worse (OK you’re getting an idea of my general attitude toward them ). But it’s not necessarily the ‘fault’ of the parents, unless you’re going to really go medieval and say it’s some reflection on their previous sinfulness or something that their kid was born that way. It’s fair to say it’s their responsibility to deal with as best they can, also obvious to say. It doesn’t make them ‘uncool’ though if they can’t make the problem just go away to the satisfaction of everybody else.
IOW totally depends. Some kids cause trouble for school/other kids because of stuff that’s happening at home (or not happening that should be). Other times that’s not it.
When my daughter was 3 or 4 and in daycare, there was a 4 year old who bit a kid. My daughter told us about it (she was not the victim). The next day several parents were discussing the situation, and I joined in, mentioning that I wasn’t cool with my kid being bitten.
A few days later the kid bit again, this time requiring a doctor/ER visit for the victim . When I picked up my daughter that night, the kid’s father was there, pleading for another chance (he was told his son was no longer welcome). The dad told me how he didn’t know what he was going to do, he had to go to work the next day and had no backup plan. He couldn’t believe there were parents complaining about his son’s behavior.
I confessed to him that I was one of the “concerned parents” who were upset about his son’s biting. He said he thought it was normal. Never found out what happened to the guy and his toothy toddler.
is he actually using terms like “express himself?” If so, I’d still look towards the parents. they might be nice people in person, but far too permissive and hands-off as parents.
The child probably needs to be evaluated by child developmental and psychological experts. Some of what you describe COULD be signs of certain disorders. If they are, normal parenting won’t help. There’s no way for for you to know if any of this is happening.
If you are ever present while this is happening try asking, “are you going to let you son do that?” This may tell you a lot.
Sounds like a hot mess. I would probably be up front with the parents that you are not comfortable letting your son spend time with theirs because of his behavior. Then I would follow through and keep them apart.
My son had a delayed autism diagnosis. I would never have allowed him to behave in my presence in the way you are describing, but he unquestionably had major anger and frustration issues, and lost friendships because of them. It helped me gather the breadcrumbs that helped us towards a diagnosis when other people shared details with me. I needed the full picture. FWTW.
ETA: There also may be nothing more than bad parenting and poor social skills. Either way, your son is better away from it.
). But it’s not necessarily the ‘fault’ of the parents, unless you’re going to really go medieval and say it’s some reflection on their previous sinfulness or something that their kid was born that way. It’s fair to say it’s their responsibility to deal with as best they can, also obvious to say. It doesn’t make them ‘uncool’ though if they can’t make the problem just go away to the satisfaction of everybody else.