No alimony? You’re lucking out.
Mediation is a much better idea for custody. My husband and I were able to work out an open visitation agreement between us as neither feels a child is a possession and we are able to trust each other to communicate and accept when the child is with the other. I think it is much better than “today is daddy or mommy’s day”.
Good luck and I am so sorry.
Issat so? I’ve never been in a divorce, no one in my family has ever had a divorce, only one person in my community when I was growing up ever had a divorce, and her hubbie was in a mental institution, and none of my IRL friends have ever had a divorce. So I really am completely clueless.
Not necesarily. Some states still give you the option of pursuing a fault based divorce.
Just because something happens every day doesn’t make it right.
I think that, if you’re sneaking around behind your partner’s back to date and lying about it, you are doing a wrong thing, and you are not being a good role model for kids. That alone doesn’t make you an unfit parent, but it’s not a good sign that you have the ability to put aside what you want for what your kids need, which good parents have to do sometimes. Combined with the spending and the lying about it, she sounds like the kind of person who will do anything to do what she wants, whatever the consequences might be for others.
Is there something in the water today? How does what you said contradict what I said? Every state allows no fault divorce and has for at least 20 years. I made no comment about fault based divorce.
I’m mostly just popping in because I want to wish Belrix his best. Divorce is the main reason I won’t get married - I’m terrified of possibly having to go through that. mental hug
As for the custody thing, though, you might want to look into the fathers’ rights organizations. A lot of states don’t bother looking into whether the mother or the father will be the “better” parent because it’s just kind of assumed that the mother is maternal by nature, which doesn’t seem to be the case in this instance.
My two cents are that by cheating, she has proven that she’s willing to put other people’s feelings, needs and wants below her own, which is never a good sign for a parent, and that she has bad money management skills and therefore is going to blow all $900 in child support on stuff she wants, and then won’t have the money to buy her kids something important when they need it. Add into it the dismal housekeeping conditions and I, personally, if I were a judge, wouldn’t give her custody at all.
Here in Nevada if a couple has 50-50 custody they can work out arrangements that make it so that each parent is REQUIRED to be able to take care of the kids by themselves - in case something happens where the other person dies, loses their job, or becomes disabled and unable to work, and is unable to pay child support. Unfortunately, that often means that the person who makes more money often gets the kids - and may not deserve them. I wish you the best of luck.
~Tasha
And just because it isn’t “right” doesn’t mean she’s “unfit.”
Here is a checklist that details some of the things a judge looks at to determine custody (sorry for the funky formatting…it’s clear on the link):
http://family.findlaw.com/child-custody/custody-forms/le22_4_1.html
When parents cannot agree on a custody arrangement, the court is left with a tough decision. The court will consider many factors when deciding to whom to award custody. In many cases, a consideration of the various factors results in an award of custody to the parent who has been the child’s primary caretaker. The following checklist can help you and your attorney establish who has been the primary caretaker in your family.
Who was usually or most often responsible for performing the following childcare responsibilities?
Task
Mother
Father
Shared
Feeding infant ______ ______ ______
Feeding younger children ______ ______ ______
Changing diapers ______ ______ ______
Holding/cuddling ______ ______ ______
Preparing meals ______ ______ ______
Packing lunches ______ ______ ______
Grocery shopping ______ ______ ______
Changing diapers ______ ______ ______
Dressing ______ ______ ______
Doing laundry ______ ______ ______
Buying clothing ______ ______ ______
Maintaining clothing ______ ______ ______
Bathing ______ ______ ______
Washing hair ______ ______ ______
Styling hair ______ ______ ______
Brushing teeth (help with or enforce) ______ ______ ______
Putting to bed ______ ______ ______
Reading stories, books ______ ______ ______
Helping with homework ______ ______ ______
Taking to/picking up from school ______ ______ ______
Taking to/picking up from extracurricular activities ______ ______ ______
Conferencing with teachers ______ ______ ______
Attending school open houses ______ ______ ______
School volunteering ______ ______ ______
Choosing schools ______ ______ ______
Helping choose classes ______ ______ ______
Attending PTA/PTO meetings ______ ______ ______
Taking to/picking up from religious services ______ ______ ______
Taking to/picking up from religious classes ______ ______ ______
Taking to/picking up from sports activities ______ ______ ______
Coaching sports teams ______ ______ ______
Taking to/picking up from lessons ______ ______ ______
Taking to/picking up from play dates ______ ______ ______
Arranging play dates ______ ______ ______
Hosting play dates ______ ______ ______
Taking to/picking up from birthday parties ______ ______ ______
Hosting birthday parties ______ ______ ______
Shopping for gifts for friends ______ ______ ______
Shopping for gifts for child ______ ______ ______
Shopping for school supplies ______ ______ ______
Shopping for toiletries ______ ______ ______
Taking to doctor ______ ______ ______
Taking to dentist ______ ______ ______
Taking to orthodontist ______ ______ ______
Making doctor/dentist appointments ______ ______ ______
Taking care of sick child ______ ______ ______
Hiring babysitters ______ ______ ______
Picking up/dropping off babysitter ______ ______ ______
Arranging daycare ______ ______ ______
Taking to/picking up from daycare ______ ______ ______
Planning holidays ______ ______ ______
Planning vacations ______ ______ ______
Teaching values ______ ______ ______
Teaching manners ______ ______ ______
Monitoring chores ______ ______ ______
Teaching sex education ______ ______ ______
Taking to park ______ ______ ______
Playing with indoors ______ ______ ______
Playing with outdoors ______ ______ ______
Cleaning home ______ ______ ______
Maintaining home ______ ______ ______
You know, I’ve re-read my posts several times. Could you point out exactly where I seem to have given legal advice? Cause God knows that was not my intention. I simply meant - he should keep the e-mails, which I would do in any circumstances, and to try and fight for the custody of the kids, which I also think he should do. I think he should keep the e-mails whether or not they make a difference in the court battle, because they will make a difference in the personal battle.
Perhaps those of us who haven’t recently been through a divorce in Belrix’s state – hell, in his town – should dial back the recommendations and advice. Family court practices vary wildly and he’s got to talk to a lawyer in person locally, and not a bunch of people on the message board who are likely talking out of their asses or opining about how things should be.
Y’know, this is the first thing I thought of when I read she was already dating. I’ll bet you a donut she’s dating right away because she wants to find someone else to support her ASAP. Then she can get money from him, plus your child support money, and possibly not have to find a job after all. And the cycle continues.
Obviously what you do regarding supporting her is your business, and she is the mother of your children, which makes things sticky, but personally I’ve never thought that letting someone else take advantage of (the rhetorical) you is good for either you or the person trying to do it. So you may want to consider setting a clear deadline by which certain things need to be done, like her finding a job, moving out, etc.
If you are seriously interested in getting custody of your kids, I know there are father’s rights sites on the Internet that offer advice on how to make that happen (hopefully someone will come along to make a recommendation on that). I think a lot of times the only reason fathers don’t get custody is just because they don’t try. I personally know a guy who divorced while he was in the Navy and still got custody of his two young daughters. On the surface of it, it would have seemed he’d have been at a big disadvantage, what with having a career where there was a lot of moving around and sea duty where he’d be away from the kids, but he really wanted custody, he went after it, and he got it. His ex-wife wasn’t an unfit mother, either - whenever he had to go to sea, they lived with her.
You presented a legal theory about “breach of contract” and how that would affect the proceedings.
:dubious: That’s it?
My exact quote:
I don’t see how that’s “presenting” anything. It was a question, fer Chrissakes.
And one more thing. I really didn’t mean to imply in any way that the OP should take my so-called legal advice. My apologies that it came out that way. I wanted to give him support, and encourage him to keep an eye on her lying ass, as well as put his children first. To that end I made some suggestions on things to do, the main one being to keep not just her e-mails but all correspondence to her.
This seems to a whole lot of you like I said too much and inferred too much. Ok, fair 'nuff. I don’t want to hijack this thread any further, so I will henceforth bow out of this thread. Belrix, best of luck in a very hard time.
Hi all,
Sorry I’ve been silent for a while. I deleted a metric buttload of files on a production server and I’ve been recovering them. Not much time to type.
For the record, I’ve been taking all the legal suggestions with big piece of salt. I know that none of you are empowered to act as a lawyer in my state. I do have the name of a recommended family lawyer if it comes to that.
That list of “childcare responsiblities” works vastly against me. The obvious reason is that she is a SAHM while I work 40+ hours a week. Of course she does more of those things.
As a lark, I plugged numbers into my Excel spreadsheet that I’ve been using to estimate my expenses as a divorced father. If I get full custody, she’s going to be even worse off making ends meet. The rules would make her pay me child support. Doing the math, she’s going to lose. Might not even be able to live independently.
I spoke with her today, she’s talking about starting a job and going to nursing school nights, weekends & perhaps online. I don’t know how she’s thinking she can be a half-time mom, a part-time student, and a full-time worker. I’d think her day would be too full. I may get de-facto full-time custody if not legal full-time custody. I’ll have to think about that, I’d be paying her child-care even if she doesn’t have the kids. Not a good thing, I think.
She’s still exchanging emails with Vince. He’s flirting so I don’t think it’s “Just Friends”, which is what she’d insist if I confronted her. (I still don’t intend to do that.) I’ve also noticed her using a yahoo mail account and that the password is not stored on our computer. She types it every time to keep her activities hidden.
Being a mom with 3 kids (under the age of 11?) going to nursing school is going to be tough. Really tough. My husband went to RN school after we married (he was already a LPN) and it was very difficult to juggle full time work and school - without kids. We had no life for a couple of years. If she is willing to give you custody she could probably do it if she was willing to devote herself to it. With 3 kids and a full time job I really don’t see her having the time to study that nursing school requires.
The main reason I suggested you see an attorney - you will have to eventually - is because I have a nasty feeling she is going to try to take advantage of you. You had said you were thinking about trying to woo her back before you found out about the date. She may well try to continue living in your home on your salary, taking care of the kids during the day (has the housekeeping improved any?) and having her fun at night. Meanwhile, you can’t go out at night because you have the kids to consider.
I know you still have feelings for this woman. I hate to see you taken advantage of and hurt by someone you care about.
Are the kids handling things ok? I’m sure they have noticed the change in sleeping arrangements, and kids sometimes notice more than we think. I know their welfare is your first concern - but you have to take care of yourself in order to be able to take care of them.
Who is the primary caregiver is only part of the custody determination, not the whole thing.
{Bolding mine}
Thanks for coming back and continuing the discussion, Belrix. I don’t mean to rake you over the coals and make you uncomfortable, but “IF?” If it comes to getting lawyers involved? I know you don’t want a divorce (for good reasons), and I know we don’t know all the details of your situation, but from everything you’ve posted here, your marriage is a corpse that just hasn’t fallen over yet. Everybody deserves to be happy, including you, and I just don’t see that for you if you continue in such a spirit-crushing situation.
Well, lawyers “if” it becomes necessary is because I’m hoping we can do this ourselves and using external mediation if necessary. I’d really like to avoid the adversarial relationship his & her lawyers would create. They’re also expensive and every penny counts right now.
I agree with the “corpse” comment. I’m starting to accept that. Monday my car was in the shop and she drove me to work. I leaned over for our traditional “leaving the car peck” and she turned her face so I got her cheek.
Yup - it’s over.
She says she wants a long separation before the official divorce just in case we change our minds but I think that’s just her placating me. She know I’d like to give it one more try but she’s not interested. As long as there’s a “Vince” in the picture, I suspect she’ll stay uninterested. New love is much more exciting than the daily routine of a long-established one.
Most mediators are actually attorneys but they work for both of you. They make sure that the forms are correct, get the legalese right on the separation agreement, help you come to a general agreement on things and point out issues that you might have missed. Since they work for both of you, they generally won’t even speak to one of you unless the other one is present with the exception of brief conversations to make appointment times or whatever.
One middle ground method that I have heard is becomming popular is to each get your own lawyers but get two lawyers who work for the same firm. The idea is that they will be less adversarial with one another but you can still confide certain things to your guy without your spouse knowing. I have no personal experience with this but it might be worth a look.
[QUOTE=Belrix
:snip:
She says she wants a long separation before the official divorce just in case we change our minds but I think that’s just her placating me. She know I’d like to give it one more try but she’s not interested. As long as there’s a “Vince” in the picture, I suspect she’ll stay uninterested. New love is much more exciting than the daily routine of a long-established one.[/QUOTE]
Does her idea of “a long separation” involve her living in your home and your continuing to support her while she dates? If so, I hope you won’t go along with it. I think that would be very painful for you. What if she decided not to come home one night? Are you going to sit up and worry all night? If she wants the single lifestyle she needs to get out and live it on her dime, not use you while she has her fun. Your heart is not going to heal that way.