The beginning of the end of my marriage

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
61

I sure hope not. At this point, I don’t consider us separated, other than by a wall. The official separation, as far as I’m concerned, is when one of us starts a new household. The only reason that hasn’t happened so far is that it’s really financially impossible to start another household with my current income.

Since she’s trying to be discreet, making me think she’s not dating, I suspect she’ll not spend a night out of the house. I wouldn’t put it past her completely, though.

However, there’s plenty of sex that can happen between dinner & returning home.

62

I think you are throwing in the towel way too soon. It is an emotional affair that you are dealing with, and even these blow over because of the “falling in love” phase is temporary (and temporary insanity on her part), then the same old issues that she has become Vince’s problems. But, HOW you address this affair will determine how long it lasts and whether or not the marriage will remain intact. IF you really want to keep the marriage (even if separation is included in the mean time), then I suggest some of these resources…

Yeah, these sites may seem like a hokey hard-sales pitch, but the material I purchased (and some free articles on those sites) from there WORKED…but only IF you want to keep the marriage.

63

I was using “unfit” in a colloquial, not a legal, sense- it meant that I don’t think she sounds like a very good parent, and I think that Belrix should try to get custody of his kids if he can. Maybe I should have said “lousy parent” instead.

64

Only if BOTH of you are really committed to keep the marriage. If she’s just giving you lip service, nothing will work.

65

Nahh.

I can’t.

66

Funny that…What is said by her, what body language she exhibits, and what actions she takes could be three entirely different things. Don’t be so sure that it is just “lip service”. Who hasn’t had the “cold shoulder” when you move in to kiss your wife if she’s pissed? It ain’t the end of the world, but she’s just not emotionally attached to Belrix at this point in time. She’s emotionally attached to the schlep, Vince, and that is why she is acting the way she is. Like I said before, affairs are acts of temporary insanity, she’s looking for an “ideal mate” :rolleyes: to fall in love with, so she can be emotionally attached again. Belrix can regain that emotional attachment again by working on himself (behaviors, health, counseling) and show her that he is the ideal mate.

BTW, actions speak louder than words…She is still staying in the house (not with Vince), she is still talking to Belrix, talking about separating rather than divorcing, etc. Hey, at least she drove him to work instead of telling him to take the bus. Something is still there. This talk of divorce is still seems a little premature. None of us here can really say what is in her head at this time, but I can guess that confusion is likely residing in her head and she ain’t dead set on divorce yet. She might threaten or talk about it…but she too confused to follow through with it yet. Belrix still has time on his hands.

67

Yeticus Rex, I really have to disagree with you on this one. She has been emotionally distancing herself from this marriage for a while. She told the counselor she would work on her marriage and went out until 1am with a male friend. She hasn’t moved out because she has no job. I don’t see any point in giving Belrix false hope only so she can shoot him down again. They agreed to separate, and that they wouldn’t date while they were still living in the same house. So that very night she has a date that she lies about.

Yes, she may be “in love with being in love” - but she has to come to realize that for herself. It isn’t fair to ask Belrix to wait on her and support her while she makes up her mind what she wants. It won’t be the first time someone found that the grass wasn’t as green on the other side of the fence as it appears.

68

What it sounds like is Belrix is about 50% committed to making his marriage work, and his wife is about 0% committed to it. That just isn’t going to work, with or without Vince in the picture. I absolutely think that a marriage can survive emotional affairs (and this is more than that - I would bet a dollar that she’s involved in every way with Vince at this point, and has been for some time), but both parties have to be 100% committed to working on the relationship and repairing all the damage that has been done.

69

Here’s a bit of advice on legalities. (As opposed to legal advice)

Get a lawyer NOW. Do not hire a lawyer that you would like to have a few drinks with or go fishing with. Hire the meanest, nastiest son of a bitch you can find.
Do exactly what this SOB tells you to do. If he or she tells you not to talk to your soon to be ex, then don’t! (Had a SIL that cost herself the better part of a million dollars by ignoring her lawyer on this point.)

This ain’t no kissy-face kids game you are getting into. Unless yours is a very unusual situation, everybody’s not going to be fair and amicable. Your wife is already playing you for financial support while she’s seeing someone new.

Somebody’s gonna win and somebody’s gonna lose. You might as well be the winner.

Sounds mean and cold, I know, but this is the voice of experience speaking. I grew up watching my mom go through three divorces. Me, Sis, all sorts of in-laws, cousins and aunts/uncles have been through it.
Get off the Mr. Nice Guy stuff and play to win. Your future and your children’s future depend on you being willing to play hardball.

70

This is true. When you’re mired in the situation and still mourning the demise of the relationship, it’s easy to make bad decisions. That is why you NEED to get a lawyer. It could be expensive, if she has the resources to go out and hire her own lawyer (does she have family that would front her the money?), but if she doesn’t and she feels guilty, now is the time to swoop in and get what you and your kids need. Or rather, have your lawyer swoop in and get you what you need.

My ESP tells me that one day soon, she’ll find some sucker that wants to rescue her and, if he has money, you’ll find yourself in a very expensive battle between his and her lawyers anyway. Take the advantage that you have. Use common sense, here, and not your heart.

I realize that it would be absolutely heartless and tragic to throw the mother of your children “out on the street”, but the decisions you make right now will affect you for many more years to come. As sad as it is, if the marraige is over, and it sounds like it is, she needs to get out of your house. The continuing to live together will only further complicate things and could ultimately lead to a big dramatic scene with possibly the police being called. Trust me on this.

71

Look…Belrix has said in other threads that she’s a good mother. She has shortcomings. They’re not necessarily dealbreakers. She needs to learn how to manage money. She needs to keep up with household duties. She’s not a lousy parent (which is the same thing as “unfit”) and it’s unfair to characterize her as someone who is incapable of raising children to adulthood.

72

Well, guess it would certainly add some mystery to your life, wondering if someone is sleeping with your wife while you’re still living there.

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? GET OUT OF THE HOUSE, WITH THE KIDS.

She made all the decisions so far to end this relationship. She is making all the rules. And trying to work your Mr. Nice Guy side so she ends up the winning side.

Find a way, financially, to make it work. She’s already made her decision. Save yourself from the minefield which is coming, while you can still talk to each other and be civil.

73

Listen to John Carter, Belrix. If it was just you and your stb-ex-wife playing games together, I wouldn’t care as much, but for the future of your children, listen to him.

74

Well, thanks all for the advice & warm thoughts.

We went to our counselor today. We’re switching from “Marriage Counseling” to “Separation Counseling”. Right now we’re on the same page and hopefully we’ll stay that way. I’m not going to hit the lawyer up yet, it may be a good idea but I’m going to wait a bit.

Maybe we can agree on a separation statement. I know she’s able to get alimony if she pushes for it. She says she doesn’t want it. I’ve agreed to carry her (my) car payment for 18 months or so. At $360/month, that’s pretty good alimony there.

She says the nursing thing is just an idea now - there’s little value in planning too much related to that. Even planning other financial things, child support (mandated by formula) & daycare are too full of unknowns to do much planning. She’s still planning on taking her certificate test next month to re-certify herself to work in pharmacies. Starting salary, according to the ads we’ve been scanning, is in the $30K region. Not great but livable if she’s very careful.

She says she still cares for me, calls me her greatest best friend so maybe she’ll not try to screw me too badly. I’ve got this lawyer’s number primed in my phone, though, in case I need it.

She says she’s still committed to not dating while we’re living together. The counselor reinforced that as a good idea. Maybe she’ll keep Vince on the back burner until we’re apart.

75

Emotional intimacy might have been lacking for months or even years, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be reclaimed. belrix definitely needs to work on his own personal issues that prevents emotional intimacy with his wife. Once he starts doing that, she will warm up to him…she has invested time and effort in this marriage as well, she isn’t going to throw it away just yet…the plans to separate (for her to get some space and time to think) might be the right idea for this marriage to be saved (Vince or no Vince). One example is “control” issues (e.g. - the wife’s spending habits and belrix’s response to it) that may need to be resolved which might help resolve many issues between the two and make marriage more desireable.

False hope means that the chances of saving the marriage is 0%. I seriously doubt it is 0%. But of course, belrix’s chances of success do depend on how much effort he puts into it. If she sees changes in him, she may become interested in investing more time and effort into the marriage itself, and hopefully make some changes on her own behalf. Otherwise, she will still have her issues regardless if she is with belrix or Vince. belrix won’t know unless he tries though.

Like I said…I had a similar situation happen to me, and I made changes to myself and succeeded in getting my wife to get emotionally intimate with me again after she was in an emotional affair. The stuff I had to do for myself and our marriage was hard work (it will never be easy) and I had to hold a mirror to my own face and honestly change what I didn’t like about myself. It was a very humbling experience. I think belrix needs to hear more stories of successful marital therapy rather than stories of divorce, alimony, lawyers and custody. I am just here to say, “It can happen.” with my own anecdote.

76

I really hope that you guys can get divorced amicably. But my personal experience doesn’t make me think it’s going to happen.

I’m in a very similar situation to you, just a bit further down the line. We were seeing a mediator together to draw up a settlement agreement. My wife went on a “holiday” for a week and when she came back I got a call from a lawyer saying he was representing her in a divorce and he had a number of demands. It just went downhill from there.

All the talk of “I’d like to remain friends”, “it’s all my fault” “I don’t want anything from you (financially)” “I’d like to do this amicably” has been forgotten and we now only speak through lawyers.

I know not all situations are the same and maybe you’re the lucky one to sort it out, but from everyone I’ve spoken to that seems to be highly unlikely.

My advice - listen to John Carter

77

Rex, your story is a good one, and it’s good for Belrix to hear differing opinions, but how committed was your wife to making your marriage work? Belrix’s wife talks a good game, but he needs to listen to her actions, and her actions say she’s not committed at all to making it work. I’m all for saving a marriage if it can be saved, but if Belrix is the only one who’s going to work at it, I don’t think that’s going to be good enough, in spite of the best intentions.

Keep going to your counsellor, Belrix. It sounds like you and your wife need some guidance out of this limbo you’re living in.

78

Listen to John Carter.

At the very least, schedule an appointment with a lawyer to discuss the process and to learn a few DO NOT DO THIS! rules.

Also, just an aside…but…If the car is in your name, and you are going to end the relationship…What happens if she gets in an accident? As I recall, Colorado law puts the financial obligations of a car wreck on the owner if the driver can’t pay. So if you only have liability, you might want to think about getting comprehensive. Or signing the car over to her 100%.

-Tcat

79

My wife had told me many times (during her low points)…“I’m emotionally empty and I have nothing left to give in this marriage”. She was already seeing a counselor for a few months when this happened. I had decided I needed to work less at the office, and help out more at the house to get her into a healthier emotional state (and physical state). When I found out about the affair a little later on, I too felt betrayed (and could have kicked her out in a fit of rage…but thought better of it regarding our kids), so I decided to swallow my pride and work even harder to become her one and only emotional attachment. This in itself took about 2-3 months when the changes I made for myself also made me the type of person (husband) my wife needed (that made her erroneously look elsewhere for). With the right plan, attitude, and mental approach, I essentially replaced the other guy as the empathyzer. He took himself right out of the equation by his agressive sexual advances (I counted on this happening eventually…the “just friends” spiel wasn’t gonna last forever when men are sexually driven and she was just looking for a white knight to say that she’s x,y & z without the sex) while I stopped arguing with her over petty stuff and really started to listen to her emotionally and gave her space (very hard for me to do this) when she needed it. Also, my presence in the household was much stronger and a welcome relief for my wife when it came to helping out with the kids (a very tasking responsibility). I started to project confidence in everything I did instead of being a helpless, blubbering, “poor me” emotional wreck. That is the key…right there. That is why I stress on taking care of yourself physically, mentally and spiritually…you will need it for the long haul regardless of the outcome.

Intentions certainly won’t do the job, well thought out strategy, commitment and action will. Whatever belrix chooses to do…he needs to make sure he does it full ass, not half-ass.

Agreed. I have given some extra thought regarding getting a lawyer, and my thought is guess it doesn’t hurt to consult one and fill him/her in on the current details so if something (from the wife’s side) unexpectedly happens, you can respond in a very quick and effective manner…and that shows respectable confidence.

80

Belrix, sorry to hear you’re in this rough place. Remember what Churchill said, “When you’re going through hell, keep going.”

Speaking from the perspective of someone who went through a similar breakup (although there was no legal attachment,) I feel the need to tell you, bro, that the biggest problem in your life right now is that your self image is at an all time low. You need to find a way to feel good about yourself again. It is absolutely **vital ** that you do this, because if you don’t, you may well end up slipping into a situation you can’t get out of, like alcoholism, or obesity, or worst of all a bad relationship. At that point you may end up unhappy for the rest of your life.

Nobody plans to get into situations like the ones I’ve described, they happen when your guard is down and you’re feeling down on yourself. You need to adopt a new hobby: Self improvement. Start that weight loss program you’ve been thinking about, maybe run a little and get in shape. Try something that you were sure you could never do. Learn to ride a motorcycle, skydive, alligator wrestling. Do something that reminds you that you’re strong and invincible, when you put your mind to it. I was never the least bit interested in combat sports, and I started boxing - the amount of self confidence I got out of it was unreal. I also found inner strengths I never knew I had. You’ve got the same kind of thing within you, you need to find it. Make a list of all those things you’ve always wanted to do in life - learn to paint a portrait, hitchhike through Batlagooshistan, play guitar onstage for a heavy metal band. Start figuring out how to make those things happen. Go ahead and be a little selfish - you’ve accrued enough karma supporting others, now it’s time to focus on you.

Don’t tell yourself you’re improving yourself to win her back - improve yourself for the most egotistical of reasons; because you want to. Don’t allow yourself to even think about doing it for her, unless it’s to show her what she’s missing out on. Living well is the best form of revenge.

The hard fact is, the only shot you have at being happily married to her is if *she * asks *you * to take her back, and you’re strong enough to tell her no. It’s up to you whether you say no or not, but you must have the ability to say it and mean it.

(Imagine what would have happened if Euthanasiast hadn’t had the fortitude to tell his ex no!)