Which intelligence community are you referring to? The military intelligence community knew that this was a likely outcome; it was, for whatever reason, a prediction that was ignored.
If there’s a lesson here, you can have all the techno-wow-lookie bombs, guided missiles, robo-warriors, and aircraft in the world. In the end, the land belongs to the people who live there. If you don’t figure out what kind of country they envision, you’re gonna lose.
Both the military and intelligence communities said that Afghanistan would fall. They just blew the timeline.
That didn’t stop Joe Biden from going in front of the people to say that the Afghan military would win and the Taliban would not be able to take the country. It appears he flat-out lied.
Why are you willing to think that the military and intelligence communities “blew the timeline” but Biden “lied”?
He said they would win, or he hoped they’d win? I saw quotes where Biden said they had the training to win, and now their leaders need to come up with a strategy and execute it. Honest question, did he say straight out that they’d win?
Your previous post suggested that the intelligence community produced an inaccurate assessment; now you’re saying that they produced an accurate assessment but that now Biden lied.
In short, you, like D’Anconia in the QZ threads, are selectively arguing two sides of the same issue.
Oh he knows what they said - he’s just “debating” disingenuously.
Modnote: This is really pushing the limits of what is allowed in P&E. You had a recent suspension and really need to follow the rules pretty closely. Either way you are not attacking the content of the post but the poster with this pair of posts.
BTW, there is an Afghanistan-focused thread here:
Here’s a drop of good news in an ocean of catastrophic bad news:
…
Under rules to be announced on Monday and put in place in October, average benefits will rise more than 25 percent from prepandemic levels. All 42 million people in the program will receive additional aid. The move does not require congressional approval, and unlike the large pandemic-era expansions, which are starting to expire, the changes are intended to last.For at least a decade, critics of the benefits have said they were too low to provide an adequate diet. More than three-quarters of households exhaust their benefits in the first half of the monthly cycle, and researchers have linked subsequent food shortages to problems as diverse as increased hospital admissions, more school suspensions and lower SAT scores.
Under the new rules, average monthly benefits, $121 per person before the pandemic, will rise by $36. Although the increase may seem modest to middle-class families, proponents say it will reduce hunger, improve nutrition and lead to better health.
…
My bold.
Can you imagine $36 a month having a major impact on whether you could feed yourself?
MODNOTE: Let’s make it official.
Time for the Afghanistan debate to either have its own thread or be dropped.
No more in this thread.
It really underlines how a relatively small amount of money can make a big difference for poor people in their everyday lives. I give to and volunteer for our local food bank, which does great work, and it’s certainly true for many of those they help.
I used to work (fundraising) for a social service charity that served the homeless and near-homeless. They had a program where they would assist with rent or utility bills on a very limited basis. Some ill-informed people said, “Why should we give money to those people? Hell, I’D like someone to pay my rent, too!” Here’s how limited the assistance was: it was limited to $25, and a person could only apply for/receive it once every six months. But it could be the difference between staying in their apartment/room or living on the street. And this situation is commonplace in our world today.
I also did a spell working for the big homeless shelter in town and just about anyone can wind up homeless through a series of catastrophes-- illness, no health insurance, medical bills, home destroyed by fire or other disaster, fired/laid off from job. The homeless (except for a very small subset of chronically homeless) are not different from you and me.
Another good step:
This is fair, and much needed. I just wish they’d make student loan debt dischargeable. That would not only help those who are hopelessly in debt now, but it would also probably stop the higher ed bubble. Colleges and universities would be forced to be more selective about which students are going to make it through colleges and pay back their loans. There would be unintended negative consequences, probably causing some institutions to fold, but that’s probably not a tragedy in the long run.
I watched the ABC News interview and thought it was on the whole fine. His justification for exiting is not an issue. However there is one thing I have noticed from him and some members of the administration in the last week where they are pivoting from questions about the handling of the exit from Afghanistan as if the mere questioning is implying the only other solution was continued occupation. I don’t like that. I’m not saying that there would have been a perfect non-chaotic outcome possible - there was not. However we should have got those refugee processing done faster and earlier.
I think there are two issues, both of which are probably attributable to first-year growing pains that any administration has to sort out.
One issue has been covered here already, which is the failure to anticipate the outcome of withdrawing air support and adhering to a known deadline. I think this kind of mistake is more likely when an administration is coming in, still trying to get its legs under it, and so forth.
The other issue is that there seems to a problem with communication and the flow of information. Several times it seems Biden has been bluntly contradicted by some of his own cabinet, the latest example being Sec of Def Austin revealing that US citizens have been confronted, harassed, and even attacked in Kabul, whereas Biden had said earlier that he hadn’t heard of any such reports. These things happen, but they can hurt credibility over time.
I don’t think we can, yet, analyze how well the withdrawal was executed. In my understanding, not a single American service person or civilian has been killed during the withdrawal. Surely that’s one of the chief concerns of a military withdrawal, if not the only one. There’s been chaos and such, and surely lots of Afghan people are suffering, but it seems like that was inevitable no matter how the withdrawal was done (and there were lots of Afghans suffering before and during this war/occupation too). So far, ISTM, the worst thing that’s happened large-scale is some chaos at and near the airport. I’m not sure how this possibly could have been avoided. We’ll see – I’m sure there will be tons of investigations into what actually happened.
Olivia Troye (former high level aide to Mike Pence) was interviewed on Rachel Maddow last night. This is completely disgusting. I wish I believed in hell so I could imagine Stephen Miller going there…to the lowest rung.
https:// YouTube 88R5aLuz97Q
No surprise there, and yes, absolutely infuriating. I personally know an Afghan woman who may die because of this shit.
The thing that really gets me is Biden’s belligerence when questioned and his refusal to admit he did anything wrong. He sounds more like Trump every day, now that the media is actually asking him harder questions than what ice cream flavor he likes.
And the bald-faced lies are amazing. He said the other day that there wasn’t a single ally complaining about the sudden pullout. The truth is that pretty much ALL allies are complaining about it, and not just a little.
He has alternately said that no one knew the government would fall, to that they knew it would fall but not so quickly, to saying that they always knew the pullout was going to create immediate chaos. He can’t keep his lies straight from day to day.
In the meantime, both France and the UK are sending soldiers into Kabul to rescue their people, while American soldiers are tied by their rules of enfagement to not leave the airport.
Also in the meantime, the American Embassy (now running out of the airport while the Taliban enjoy their former digs) has sent out a text to Americans in Kabul telling them the security situation at the airport has degraded and they should shelter in place. Jesus.
From the embassy:
This, apparently, was Joe Biden’s perfect plan with no mistakes at all.