This was being discussed on another board, and the usual suspects came into defend Israel’s actions against Palestinians (the usual - they fire rockets, so a retaliation with a 100:1 kill ratio is justified).
They even defended the two soldiers despite the fact that Israel themselves considered their actions immoral, unnacceptable and criminal.
It has struck me a few times that many of the supporters of Israel on the net seem to have a far more black and white view of the conflict then the Palestinians or Israelis themselves, and are often willing to excuse any conduct - even conduct that Israel disapproves of.
I suppose the debate is why do so many people fanatically support Israel, not only when it does something morally dubious or wrong, but even Israel itself considers the actions to have been wrong?
Speaking as an Israeli, I’m proud of my country for convicting those two soldiers.
I’d also like to say that globally speaking, there is far more blind, fanatical *opposition *to Israel than there is blind, fanatical support. The former exists solely in the U.S. The latter exists everwhere else.
I suppose it’s the empathy which comes from knowing that Israelis are even more exposed to the risk of being murdered by some fanatical moslem terrorist than we are. Plus the fact that the jews here never cause anybody any inconvenience, so it’s hard to hate them.
I’m on the same side as the Israelis because militant Islam has put me on that side, not through any choice that I made. Does this make me ‘fanatical’? I’ll start crticising Israel in a fair-handed manner when the world’s moslem governments and all the other anti-semites get serious about peace. In the meantime, there are more egregious injustices for me to prioritise.
There can’t be peace until the arabs stop fighting*.
Sandwich
this is a trick. Think carefully before arguing that I’m wrong.
I was just going to say that the fact that Israel convicted the soldiers is quite a good thing.
As for why people fanatically support Israel in the face of Israel sometimes doing bad things (sometimes very bad things), I suspect it has a lot to do with the opposition to Israel. When so many people are unrelenting in their call for Israel’s destruction, its supporter feel that they cannot afford to concede any points even when, in less contentious circumstances, they would admit that Israel had done wrong.
Even on this board there have been debates where I might have admitted that the other side of the argument had valid points if I did not feel that they would have deliberately misused such admissions as proof of the weakness of my position, which I had not in fact conceded.
On preview - I think Sandwich has just said essentially the same thing.
Perhaps it is connected with the way many people on the net are fanatically anti-Israel. On the popular site reddit.com, the evil ways of Israel are usually the subject of no less than 1/3 of the articles on WorldNews. It’s that way on many sites. Personally I really don’t give a damn about Israel. Denmark is a very small country, but Israel is smaller than just one region of Denmark. It’s tiny. It’s hardly there. It’s almost nothing. But I do think it has a right to exists. And when I feel people are questioning this I become defensive of Israel. And when I feel Israel is being criticised wildly disproportionally to their actual size and the importance of the problem I become suspicious and more defensive. But really, I can spend months without giving Israel a single thought.
I don’t really feel a great need to criticise these Israeli soldiers, because they are already being prosecuted by the Israeli state and the issue is being competently handled. What I find surprising is that the people that find it necessary to bring down the wrath of God on Israel in such cases to do with Israel, seldom express the same need when it comes to the enemies of Israel.
Its hard to think Israel is ‘not bad’ when there are near-incessant headlines such as this. Israel executes American citizen? Executing wounded civilians? Really? Not surprised myself, to be honest. Typical modus operandi for them, imho.
In the US at least, a big portion is the fear of being labeled an anti-semite. It is almost as if we are giving Israel a free pass due to “white Man’s guilt” re: the Jews. It’s weird. That, and we need them there so we have a friendly military staging area for throwing our dick around in the oil producing countries.
Dunno about “wrath of God” but I tend to be more critical of Israel because I have higher expectations of them. I doubt that the PA or heads of Hamas/Hezbollah/whatever could get all their followers to stop committing terrorism against Israel even if they ordered it all to cease; the societal (and physical) infrastructure in the Palestinian Territories is too screwed up for any central authority to have any significant power. I’m not excusing the violence; I just think it would be much harder to stop. OTOH Israel does have complete(-ish) control of its army, so I hold them more accountable for their actions. Israel is a sovereign nation; the Palestinian terrorities are a mess. Different expectations.
In the same way I tend to be more critical of the US not because I hate it but because I love it and want it to do better.
I am dubious that the OP could demonstrate to us any support here or on the Mystery Board for the idea of soldiers compelling a child to ferret out booby traps.
In most civilized nations there is revulsion at the idea of using children in warfare.
This. Sadly, war provides opportunities for terrible people to do terrible things. Some states enable and protect these people - Israel is sending them to prison.
It’s spelled “Muslim,” and it’s capitalized. There are plenty of Islamic countries which are peaceful. Your argument essentially boils down to “I’m a fanatical defender of Israel because Muslims are so eeeeevil.” What a thoughtful analysis.
The support wasn’t for the tactics used by the soldiers, but they blamed the Palestinians for putting the soldiers in that situation, and felt that the soldiers should not have been charged.