Hmm, I was a Blue Bird (that’s the itty bitty Camp Fire Girls) and then a Sea Scout (which is like other scouts except co-ed and with boats instead of tents). I don’t know if Sea Scouts is just a local thing, but there must be other organizations for young ones to learn team work and life skills in almost every community, right? There’s no need to join a homophobic organization if you don’t want to.
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I have to ask, at the risk of being shot down in flames: what is wrong with not allowing overt gays into the scouting ranks as leaders? Isn’t this a prevention measure against the Jerry Sandusky’s of the world?
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Jerry Sandusky wasn’t an “overt gay”, so having such a policy would have done absolutely nothing to prevent his crimes.
This brings up an interesting delima. When do you say “fuck this shit I am outa here” or instead “fuck this shit and I am gonna stay and fight till you kick my ass out or you quit being assholes” ?
While IMO either one is valid, automatically going for one or the other isn’t the way to go.
An interesting life lesson for sure.
Sea Scouts is a coed Venturing organization (age 14 - 21) that is part of the Boy Scouts of America in the US. The same restrictions on adult leadership applies to the Sea Scouts as it does to any other Boy Scout organization (Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, Sea Scouts, Explorer Scouts and Venturers).
Note that this only officially applies to registered adult volunteers - people who sign the paperwork and are officially permitted to wear the uniform. There is no official prohibition on a boy who is gay being a Scout, and in some Troops that boy could probably earn Eagle as long as it was not trumpeted about to where the local Council found out (and the Council is who processes the paperwork).
The Org Chart:
Boy Scouts of America
Council e.g. Cecil County Council
District
Chartered Organization e.g. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Legion Hall 666
Unit e.g. Troop 666, Pack 666, Crew 666, Ship 666
Now when an adult signs up, they sign a line saying that they agree to follow the rules of the BSA. This means no gays and no atheists. The application is counter signed by the Chartered Org and the Committee Chair of the unit. The BSA runs a criminal background check and if you pass you gain the right to be a registered adult leader and wear the uniform.
The Chartered Org can make any decision they want to. There are Mormon only units with only Mormons as adult leaders. The Catholics have the same. Some units will not register a woman as a Scout leader, even though the BSA started allowing that in the 80s. If a unit doesn’t want you because you are just icky in general - that is their choice.
However - on the issues of Atheists and Gays - units have no choice. If someone tells on you, and you are an open atheist or gay - then the BSA will not allow you to be a registered adult leader. Lots of units have both, and get away with it, because nobody tells on them. In the case of the lesbian mom this year - someone narced. The unit wanted to keep her as the leader for the 1st graders - but the BSA said that she could not remain a registered leader.
What many of us are fighting for is the right to let the chartered organization decide if they want to accept gays and lesbians as adult leaders, the same way other units choose when and how women can be some types of adult leaders. This is known internally as local control, and it is what most of us expect to get passed in the next 10 years (we hope). We were hoping that the committee would push for further research into local control, instead of just killing it once again for another year.
In my case - my quitting would only serve as an example to a small group of boys for a brief period of time. Worse, I would lose the ability to help a lot of them along the path of life.
Staying in, however, allows me to be a thorn in the side of those who want this issue to go away. I can do more on the inside, than if I left the organization.
I know plenty of Eagles who won’t enroll their sons due to the discrimination - and I totally respect it. I just think that I can do more on the inside.
So what are you doing then?
Letter writing? Speaking up? Only when asked directly? I’m just curious, what all this, ‘working from the inside’, amounts to, is all.
Is it actively doing something? Is it staying in, with the hope that you’ll be able to gentle guide change? Or is it more? Some clarification would be nice.
Good for you!
As I said, its not an easy answer either way…but thanks to you for doing good.
Speaking up at Council meetings.
I send two pennies with a letter during the fund raising part of the year.
Zero tolerance for anti-gay comments by adults or youth in my unit.
Not enough, but simply being known as someone who openly disagrees has changed the tone at many a Camporee discussion.
I’m not claiming that I am going to change Irving, TX - but I can make it so that nobody who knows me can claim that all leaders are in agreement.
Most of us want local control so that we can go back to our units and just keep on doing what we have always done - provide a great place for boys to grow a little more.
I may be coming into this a little too early…our pack is only three years old. It may change as the boys reach scouting age and they become more aware, but two things stand out in my mind:
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Sexual preference is YEARS away from showing itself in these kids’ lives.
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There’s a great push for boys to reach Eagle before 16, when they become overcome by ‘the fumes’, Perfume, and gasolene fumes.
The bulk of what scouting has to teach can be had before Johnny starts to ‘feel funny’. Based on the number of kids in our pack that are there for ‘some semblance of a male role model’ in their lives, I’d say it was more important to leave sexuality, AS A WHOLE, out of the equation.
In much the same way that religion plays a varying role, depending on the pack. Some are really devout, others…not so much.
If anything, it migh teach the kids that ALL organizations have a cross section of members…hypocrites and all.
ETA: Based on how hard it’s been trying to recruit volunteers to run the pack, I suspect if they pushed the point, their numbers would implode.
Did you guys bother to read the statement?
Sounds like they’re deciding by NOT deciding.
By years you mean one or two? starting age for boy scouts is 10.5. I’d venture to guess most boys in boy scouts could identify their sexuality.
Cub scouts start at age 6.
How would the group interpret this?
That exact outcome can ONLY come by dropping the ridiculous anti-gay policies of the Bigot Scouts. They, the bigoted assholes who think that gays are icky, are the only ones who are injecting sexuality into the equation.
I am a scout. Please do not paint with such a broad brushstroke. The only interpretation I can take from the OFFICIAL statements is that they are NOT taking a stance on it.
I cannot comment on the climate at the local levels for the people that are leaving. I CAN say I’d be heartily against any kind of anti-ANYTHING statement, and that this kind of political statement should not be using this particular forum.
Sexual Preference has very little to do with a Totin’ Chip, riflery, Outdoor Survival, or treating others with respect.
Sure. And just because I’m a member of the KKK, that doesn’t mean that I’m racist. Stop painting with such a broad brush.
I mean, hating niggers has nothing to do with learning how to light a fire on two sticks or how to get my laundry sparklingly white.
Hmm. Look. Near as I can tell, there ARE no Sexual Orentation Beltloops, pins, or merit badges to be earned.
(Nor are there badges for racism or Jihad.)
You are making the classic mistake: Just because sexual orientation IS a big deal, does not give it play to take over EVERY aspect of EVERYONE’S life.
Sexuality has very little to do with scouting, you might as well talk about how they’re Colorists for having a predominately green uniform.
Treat me with the same respect I treat you, and we’ll discuss.
I’m not sure someone who equates an innate trait with wearing green is worthy of much respect.
Get (that burning cross) off my lawn! And where’s my ultrawhite bedsheet with the two holes in it?
I’m sorry. I couldn’t help myself.
I interpret it as bullshit. It says that “good people” can disagree and still work together. However, they’re banning gay people from working together with them. Are gay people not capable of being “good people”?
It’s also pretty telling that their whole statement talks about how they’re keeping their policy in place, but never mentions the policy. The other quote you mentioned is, I think, the only place where the statement refers to sexual orientation at all. They know they’re on the wrong side of history here.