The Bundys are at it again.

[sleestak]

@lance_strongarm

And there you have it.

The reason much of this land is in federal hands in the first place is that the states didn’t want it, and many might still say “no thanks” to much of it.

Apparently no one actually reads anything.

From the cited article:

Soon after, two contradictory reports were published offering different estimates on how much the endeavor would cost. The Idaho Conservation League declared the state would lose money, while the Idaho Department of Lands said Idaho would gain money.

So, the Idaho Conservation League, which incidentally wants to keep land undeveloped and unused, says it will cost tons of money for Idaho to manage the land.

The Idaho Department of Lands, which manages forests and uses the money generated for public schools among other things, thinks that it will make money.

Spot any sort of motivated reasoning here?

So, no, it is not clear that this is a loser for Idaho.

Slee

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Dangerosa

I’m beginning to think terrorist and even militant are the completely wrong words.

improv comedy troop? fuck-ups? The planning did not extend to someone who OWNS A RANCH figuring out how to take care of his own damn cows while he was busy holding a federal park building.

'I Need to Get Home': Oregon Occupiers Hint at Exit Plan

Ringleader Ammon Bundy insisted they “have a plan” to help ranchers in Harney County avoid the fate of Dwight Hammond and his son Steven, who are now in federal prison for setting fires on their ranch that spread to government land.

ah, so they have a “plan” that will allow anyone to poach and set fires on public land without having to pay any consequences for their criminal actions.

Terrific. I wonder if the plan involves a theory that all statute law is contractual and therefore only applicable if an individual consents to it. Or that they can do whatever the fuck they please since they have not consented to a contract with the state. Or some other Woo bullshit.

[eschereal]

Yesterday’s statement from the Harney County Sheriff:

I want to invite those who live and work in Harney County to join me on Wednesday afternoon for a community meeting.… I want to gather people together to talk about their security concerns and the disruptions that the behavior of the militants on the refuge are causing for our people. It is very important that Harney County citizens who feel strongly about getting these militants out of our county join with me in this effort.

In addition, we strongly discourage others from joining those at the refuge. Due to safety concerns by the people of this community, I have asked for extra sheriff’s patrols to assist us in maintaining a safe environment for everyone.…

… They have promised to leave if our community wants them to. We want to see them go home to their families … We all want a safe resolution to this situation, and to go back to our peaceful way of life."

As … the … Refuge … is a federal facility … this will be investigated by the federal government. My department will assist … the FBI, who is handling investigation of any federal violations occurring on the refuge.

“strongly discourage others from joining (them)” does not sound very much like a blockade.

[eschereal]

@Euphonious_Polemic

ah, so they have a “plan” that will allow anyone to poach and set fires on public land without having to pay any consequences for their criminal actions.

Terrific. I wonder if the plan involves a theory that all statute law is contractual and therefore only applicable if an individual consents to it. Or that they can do whatever the fuck they please since they have not consented to a contract with the state. Or some other Woo bullshit.

there is nothing in the Constitution about <insert your issue here>

[BrainGlutton]

@BrainGlutton

Now listen to the story of a man named Jed
He watched Alex Jones and got funny in the head . . .

Speak of the Devil . . .

The bizarre twist to the fracas at Malheur Wildlife Refuge is that Alex Jones believes many of the militia members are actually government agents tasked with fabricating an excuse for President Obama to declare “soft martial law.”

On Monday, Jones released a YouTube video, evidently filmed somewhere in the Phoenix desert, in which he flies off in another one of his off-the-shelf conspiracy theories about the globalist plot to… ???

Among other things, Jones blames the Oregon stand-off on Obama: “Ladies and gentlemen, don’t let Obama be successful when it comes to starting civil unrest and riots in this country.” Jones continued, “They will use that as a civil emergency to bring in a type of soft martial law.”

[Muffin]

@doorhinge

The refuge was closed. Closed for the winter.

Cite please.

I had a look at the refuge’s website at the start of the armed standoff, prior to it being updated to reflect the Bubbabundyites causing it to be closed. Yes, the visitor center was open.

I suggest you visit the wayback machine, for although it didn’t capture the days immediately prior to the start of the armed standoff, it did cover several days from the previous winter, which had the same hours as those I saw at the start of teh armed standoff 2016.

The Refuge Visitor Center is open Monday-Thursday from 8:00 to 4:00 and Friday from 8:00 to 3:00. The refuge is open from dawn until dusk.

In short, the only reason the visitor center is closed is because of the armed standoff. It is not closed for the winter. It is closed for the armed standoff.

[elucidator]

“Soft martial law”? You know, another message board, one clotted with juvenile and prurient minds would have loads of fun with that. I commend my fellow Dopers for their maturity, probity, and good taste. So far.

[TroutMan]

@Muffin

In short, the only reason the visitor center is closed is because of the armed standoff. It is not closed for the winter. It is closed for the armed standoff.

You are correct. There was some confusion because at the time of the takeover, it was indeed closed, but only for the weekend. There is also localized confusion because doorknob is an idiot.

@elucidator

“Soft martial law”? You know, another message board, one clotted with juvenile and prurient minds would have loads of fun with that. I commend my fellow Dopers for their maturity, probity, and good taste. So far.

Heh heh. You said probity. Well taste this, my good sir.

[andros]

@steronz

I just went to google news and plugged in the phrase.

CNN, yahoo news, NBC, LATimes, The Atlantic, USA Today. All of them have articles referring to it as an armed standoff. Because it is.

No fair doing hingy’s homework for him!
(Thanks, though.)

[GIGObuster]

@sleestak

The Idaho Department of Lands, which manages forests and uses the money generated for public schools among other things, thinks that it will make money.

Spot any sort of motivated reasoning here?

Yes:

Analysis says Idaho could make money on federal land transfer

The analysis also assumes Idaho would reject the transfer of any federal lands that have abandoned mines or hazardous waste cleanup issues.

I did try to find the report they claim that was made more recently, but I would not be surprised to find that the most recent one is also wishing to ignore the poison pills. So, based on the fact that 2 reports point to loses, and the one that was made by a group that ignores a very important issue is the one that claims “Profit” I think that the ones that point at more costs to the state are the ones that are more accurate.

[eschereal]

@elucidator

“Soft martial law”? You know, another message board, one clotted with juvenile and prurient minds would have loads of fun with that. I commend my fellow Dopers for their maturity, probity, and good taste. So far.

Well, there was that bit upthread where the poster’s autoconnect turned him into a genital in Mormonia. Pretty tame action on it, though.

[asterion]

Who needs to make fun of “soft martial law” when you’ve got erotic fanfiction? http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2016/01/06/decembrists-frontman-colin-meloy-tweeted-erotic-fanfiction-about-the-militia-standoff-and-its-awesome?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link

[SeldomSeen]

The Bundyites have pissed off the Indians. “They just need to get the hell out of there”. I’ve known a few of the Burns Paiute tribe and they’re way, way meaner than the angry birders. Might be the ideal solution, for the law to look the other way and let the tribe mount a midnight raid on the militants. It probably won’t happen, but it’s nice to think about…

[eschereal]

This statement is on behalf of all 36 Sheriffs in the State of Oregon

The Sheriffs of Oregon are united in the support of Harney County and its residents. We are supplying logistical and operational support to the community while the FBI works for a peaceful resolution with the militants at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

We want the good people of Harney County and the State of Oregon to know that we will always unite to provide support and assistance to ensure the safety of our residents, for any length of time, whenever criminal activity or an emergency, fractures the peace and security in our communities. Thank you.

source

Note the use of the phrase “criminal activity” appearing first in the last paragraph.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

[

One episode in particular has upset the community.

The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn’t need their protection from the government.

Later, the men showed up at the sheriff’s office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.

She had, they said, threatened them.

](Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns - oregonlive.com)
The longer this goes on, the more the Bundy Brothers (and Ryan Payne, and all their cohorts) look like morons.

[Miller]

@Snowboarder_Bo

[url=Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns - oregonlive.com]
The longer this goes on, the more the Bundy Brothers (and Ryan Payne, and all their cohorts) look like morons.

That’s unfair.

They looked like morons before this ever started.

[Dangerosa]

@Miller

That’s unfair.

They looked like morons before this ever started.

It would be really funny without the guns and the sense of entitlement the size of Grand Canyon.

[John_Mace]

@Snowboarder_Bo

[url=Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns - oregonlive.com]
The longer this goes on, the more the Bundy Brothers (and Ryan Payne, and all their cohorts) look like morons.

That should be moroni.

[GIGObuster]

IIUC among Mormons there is a lot of controversy about where the land of Moron was.

I thought the Land of Moron was the ancient name for Utah, but the Bundys might settle that question about the real location of that land.

[UberArchetype]

My only question is: How do we teach these fools the lesson they so richly deserve without getting innocent people killed?