Sort of funny story:
When i was about 11, i was having one of my usual arguments with my 9-year-old sister. I got really angry, and called her a cunt. Of course, she had no idea what it meant, and went off to ask our mother.
Needless to say, i landed in a fair bit of shit.
The difference with calling someone “gay” to mean that they are in some way dispicable is that it associates being gay with being dispicable.
Now you can argue that calling someone a “cunt” does the same thing. But in that case, so does calling someone a “prick”. You can’t have it both ways on that score.
I’m happy to accept that in the US “cunt” is a gender-specific epitath up there with the worst in homophobia and racism, if that’s what you’re telling me. In return you have to accept that in the UK it is not.
So where does that leave us? I won’t use the term in the US and I will in the UK. But what about this message board? Is it in the US, the UK or neither? I would suggest the latter. There seem to be a few here who want to claim the former.
You tell me that I have the right to use it but I shouldn’t be surprised if you get worked up by it in response. Well we’ve now told you that it does not have the connotations to us that it does to you. We’ve told you that it is an insult on par, maybe, with “fucker”. No more, no less.
So, then, are you going to continue to get worked up when I use it? Does this not mean that you are trying to force your culture on me with no return compromise? Why should -I- be the one to change? Is the word inherently egregious? No. It’s just a word. If you project a cultural significance onto my saying it when we have already told you that we do not place that significance on it then you are engaging in simple cultural imperialism.
And it was our language first. So fuck off.
pan
Just to emphasize, it’s not universaly bad in the US. Where I’ve always been It’s pretty much on par with dick and cocksucker(not thought of as gay related) as first-tier insults, but has nothing special about it beyond a personal insult.
shrug Put me in the “women who use the word cunt” camp. Yes, it’s a really hateful insult, which is why I reserve it for really really “special” people. I live in the US, and use it to refer to both men or women, but yes, I do usually use it in reference to a woman.
And for what it’s worth, black people don’t refer to each other as “niggers” as a friendly term, it’s “nigga”. A subtle difference, but there ya go. “What’s up, my nigga?” is not generally considered offensive when used as “ghetto speak”, but I think generally one black person calling another one “nigger” will usually result in an ass-beating of some magnitude.
I have many black friends who use the non-offensive form "nigga"as a friendly term, and use “nigger” as a really bad insult. I don’t use either word, for the record.
kabbes, have I gotten worked up? If I’ve given that impression, I apologize.
We have a lot of US users. We have a lot of users from other places. It seems reasonable to me that as a courtesy, I’d strive to understand your point of view (and I think I have - as has Zabali) and that you’d strive to understand mine. Which means that if you call me a cunt and I get all upset (forgetting that you aren’t in the US) you’d say “oh, yeah, I forgot. I didn’t mean it that way, it isn’t so bad here.” And I’d say “no problem, I forgot you were a Brit.” And that I’d strive to remember the word doesn’t carry such heavy connotations in other parts of the world and try not to get upset in the first place.
But in order to read the right connotation into the words, I have to know (or remember) where you are from - and I have to be aware that the word is a casual vulgarity to you without the misogynic connotations it has here. With you or Gary, I know - we’ve all been around enough that even if you don’t list location, I have a clue. Other posters are harder to figure out - and not everyone has been here as long or read as much here as I have. Its pretty likely that if one of the Mpls guys were to call me a cunt, he would mean it “that way” and he’d be intending to use the worst and most offensive insult for a woman he could come up with.
Seems to me like if you guys want to consider using cunt in a casual fashion, you are going to have to live with US posters getting offended (this cultural difference in usage is not common knowledge here), or explain it every damn time you use it.
We can reach accomodation on these words - in the interest of community. People can strive to understand that in the US many people see cunt as the equvalent as nigger - aren’t aware that in other places it is any different - and not be shocked when someone takes offense - and maybe even be willing to do the dance following (it isn’t so bad here) - which may be enough of a hassle to keep people from using it. And people in the US can strive to remember that outside of the US it isn’t that insulting? We are fighting ignorance here, right? There is some halfway point that isn’t “my way or the highway.”
Now we have this thread when and if somebody gets overly offended then they can be pointed to this thread. If they still have a problem with it well that’s their problem IMO.
kabbes get post BTW. I laughed out loud at the end. Classic 
Nice sentiment Dangerosa 
tdn, in the ways I have seen “cunt” used, yes it can damage a reputation badly. It’s used to poisin others against that female, you use it to describe the person to more than one individual, in the case that I saw the person also described a heavily slanted (to my mind) incident to back the assertion up. Result? The female became a pariah, lost friends, and no one trusted her or would help her out when she was in trouble. She was shunned. Cunt=leper/pariah in this part of the US, and apparently in Dangerosa’s part too.
I’ll say, I wish it weren’t so. I wish that the realm of insults around here wasn’t so sexist, but it is. I didn’t make the “system” I’ve just lived in it for 30 years. It’s slowly changing, thankfully. Meanwhile, I’m stuck getting chafed every now and then.
kabbes, whether your country is the “ancestral origin” of many of the people from this nation is irrelevant. Although I think you were trying to be light hearted, it came out to me as a bit ugly. Why is it so hard to understand that different countries have their own nuances and respect this? I did not say I would jump all over you if you used the c word on this board, (well, maybe if you called me that, I don’t put up with 2 insults, the c word and the b word.) I merely stated that it chafed me a bit, and why. I stated more than once that I did not throw a tantrum when it was used, but explained in a rational, respectful manner why it bothered me, since people were curious.
It’s rude and disrespectful to stamp your feet, and refuse to try to be polite to a person from a different country, whether you personally feel the action is insulting or not. It seems to me, that you were engaging in “cultural imperialism” when you made that last statement, and basically refused to even try not to offend.
Why can’t we all just try not to step on each other’s toes like me, Dangerosa, and others have suggested? You who use the term casually, try not to use it in reference to those who find it so harsh, and in return we will do the same for you, out of respect. Just as those teenagers who use the term “gay” so very casually will quickly adapt to the “rules of manners” established here that prevent that, because some posters get so offended by it.
This is utter bullshit. “Cunt” and its male counterparts “Dick” or “Cock” are simply epithets used to descibe an extremely unpleasant person. The word “dick” is certainly not "rarer than the word “cunt”. One word sticks, and the other doesn’t? What the Sam Hill are you talking about? The word doesn’t define the person, it’s used to describe the person. “Cunt” was used in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest when Jack Nicholson describes a nurse’s disagreeable personality:
There’s nothing there to indicate that the nurse is lazy, or a slut, or any kind of implication that women are inferior to men. It just means she’s not a nice person.
There is no difference in implication in calling a man a “dick”, or calling a woman a “cunt”. The only difference I can see is that certain women like to complain loudly about it.
That’s not the same thing. To use the word “gay” as an insult is to imply that being gay is bad, the point being that homosexuality is not bad in and of itself. Calling someone a cunt does imply that “being a cunt” is bad, but one can not literally be a cunt. And you can’t say that it inherently implies that being a woman is bad unless you acknowledge that the word “dick” implies the same when used for men.
One more point: If “cunt” is not the equivalent counterpart to calling a man a “dick”, then what is the equivalent?
Dewy fuckflap.
blowero, I suggest you go back and read the posts in this thread again, more carefully this time.
I did not say the WORD dick was rarer than the word cunt, I said that the word “sticking” (becoming a reference name/nickname) was rarer in the case of dick. I hear dick used all the time, but rarely is a guy known by and large as “dick” it just describes how he’s acting today, or maybe this week. However, use the word cunt where I’m from to describe a female, and it sticks with her. I have seen this happen.
I’m not the only one who has asserted that where I personally live, this is the case. It’s not rational, it’s sexist. As I stated I did not make the “system”, but I have lived in and seen it in action for 30 years. Read Lady of the Lake’s posts in this thread, she quotes some very logical explanations of the phenomena. Stating that a cultural nuance is not logical, does not make it less so. You can’t somehow null it by stating it is imbalanced either unfortunately. Again, I wish that dick were just as hateful as cunt, but it isn’t. I wish I could just stick my nose in the air, say “Poo, poo!” and make it go away. I can’t 
Because of this, I excercise “cultural sensitivity” and don’t use that phrase in these parts.
Some would say that bitch is the equivalent to dick, both usually refer to temperment these days.
Ok, I realize that this statement needs a little clarifying: “Again, I wish that dick were just as hateful as cunt, but it isn’t.”
I’m saying that I wish males and females had the same societal value. Because females have less value than males in many parts of this nation specifically, the word "cunt’ is largely a more hateful epithet. This is what I meant.
blowero,
I don’t think there is an equivlent. I don’t think that straight white guys have words that hurt like cunt, nigger or faggot. I’m sure that there are women who aren’t hurt by the word cunt and men who are extremely hurt if called a dick. But in my experience (which, granted, is far from universal), there just isn’t anything I can call a guy and get the same result that I could if I’d call a woman in the US a cunt. Motherfucker comes close, but fucker doesn’t.
I’m also willing to consider that the emotional nuances of language are more important to women then they are to men. Which may explain why cunt is bad, but dick doesn’t have the same “oomph.” But it wouldn’t explain why faggot is so hurtful. I still like Podkayne’s explaination. It sounds all feminist moosh, but I think there is truth to the explaination that penises are seen tools of power, and the same can’t be said (on a general level) for a woman’s vagina - especially in the cunt sense (there is power in pussy). Men, I’ve discovered, tend to be very proud of their penises (even the guy with the little gerkin I dated), women just don’t have the same relationship with their vaginas (which may have something to do with a vagina to a women is about a LOT more than sex - it (or rather our reproductive system) turns on us once a month.)
It’s an ancient thing, that goes across many cultures Dangerosa. Females were seen as the submissive ones. Penises are like swords, or cobras. They are powerful and masculine. Both swords and penises penetrate aggressively. Vaginas are penetrated, they are conquered. They aren’t aggressive, they are timid and hide if battle comes their way. This is the dim, vague beginnings of why “cunt” was even picked as a slur. The people picked the one thing that was in common to a gender, and used that to both praise and browbeat individuals. Males who were seen as too timid/weak/indecisive got called by the feminine gender’s sex organ. Males who were seen as overly aggressive were called after the “ultimate sign of aggression” a penis. Even today, hand gestures in more than one country that are aggressivly insulting mimic the erect penis.
As to why pussy is a bit more powerful in some cases, it’s because it’s still seen as desirable, “guys want pussy” if they are straight. Since it’s desired, it’s to be pursued. However, both “tit” and “pussy” are used interchangably with wimp/weakling/timid.
I agree entirely.
Hmm, I mean that those that have vaginas aren’t aggressive, they are timid and hide if battle comes their way. Since a sword (or spear, or knife) penetrates the person being conquered, then a penis by association “conquers” the vagina, and thus male dominates female.
No, I don’t really think that every time my husband and I have sex he is oppressing me, far from it. blush I’m merely trying to explain the likely origins of that particular slur. More than one culture through the ages has seen the female as submissive, and the male as aggressive. Yes, part of it is because males were generally larger, but the similarity between weapons/tools which were needed for survival, and the erect male organ probably didn’t hurt either.
I said before in that other thread, I like the word cunt and I keep on using it.
I’ll use it as an insult if it fits, and I don’t care if the insultee is male or female.
I’ll use it in bed if the mood strikes me.
It just doesn’t seem any worse than ‘dick’.
Wow, look at all the cuntroversy over one word.
Seriously, I personally don’t find cunt to be a horrible insult - I didn’t even know that it was offensive until I started lurking here. A different message board I frequent is overrun with furriners who throw it around to referr to anyone. However, I was of the impression that people on this board found the word to be, in the words of my other post, “pretty vile”, and told the OP of that thread such. Sorry if I stepped on anyone’s toes.
I suggest you bite me.
Whether you are talking about the word or the “sticking”, what you are saying is just so much nonsense. You are going to be judged by what kind of a person you are. If you are a nice person, and someone happens to call you a nasty name, it’s not going to “stick” to you.
Ha, ha, ha, ha! Women aren’t ever aggressive? Listen, I’ve met plenty of aggressive women. You are seriously suggesting that some strained symbolism of the penis “spearing” the vagina like a sword is cause to have a double-standard with regard to insults? You mean you’ve never been on top? Perhaps you’re not aware, but there can be a lot more to sex than lying motionless on the bed and letting the man “spear you with his sword”.
If you are going to subscribe to the notion that women are “delicate flowers” who are to be put on a pedestal and handled with kid gloves, then it’s only fair that such delicate flowers shouldn’t be using the word “dick”.
Dangerosa:
Sorry, I just disagree. Calling a man a “dick” or a “cock” is just as hurtful as calling a woman a “cunt” or a “twat”. It’s all the same - you are referring to the person by their genitalia in a denigrating manner. It might be true that there’s an unfair societal expectation for men not to show their emotions - so while a man might not cry and whine and carry on about it when he is insulted, it nonetheless doesn’t make the insult any less hurtful. A lot of men are taught that they have to be “tough”, and “just suck it up” when they are hurt - but that doesn’t mean they enjoy being called nasty names any more than women do. My suggestion is that if you don’t want to be called a nasty name, don’t be a nasty person.
You’re suggesting a double-standard where it’s acceptable for women to insult men, but off-limits for men to insult women in exactly the same way. Sorry, I’m not buying.