The C word

What if said rival had used the word “cunt”, and not told the anecdote? Or if she told the anecdote, and used the word “prick” instead?

You seem to want to blame the word, when in fact it is the rival who is to be blamed. As well as the idiots who believed and then spread the rumors. Why do they not deserve any of your ire?

And once again, if you and yours give that word such a specific meaning, and that much power to convince, then I suggest that you’ve spent far too much time discussing it and agreeing on its meaning.

kabbes - I was never exposed to those words as a racial slur. They were just casual words. (I lived a fairly protected existence until high school, I didn’t see a rated R movie until I was seventeen - in high school I started making up for lost time) So yes - until I was in high school I was unaware that those words had a negative connotation (I was unaware that faggot had a negative connotation until fairly recently - like three years ago because I have vivid memories of the conversation - and I actually helped organize a Gay Lesbian film festival - which was part of the problem - faggot was used as casual slang between some of the other festival organizers who were gay - I don’t use a lot of slang in my speech, so it had never come up that it might be inappropriate for ME to use the word. Kike was another that I was unaware how hateful it was until I was well into my twenties - I knew it was a racial slang by college, I didn’t realize that most people think it as bad a slur as they do - I’d classed it with words like “Limey” and “Yank”). I have a girlfriend who teaches high school and tells us stories about kids using all sorts of words that they simply do not realize have any connotations other than the casual usage they have heard (and “gay=stupid” is one of her stories). And can you say that without a doubt, no one in Britian has EVER used cunt as a hate term, or simply that you have never been exposed to such a thing…cause I’m guess that the occational 'merikin has been in London and has used it in that fashion. You most likely have been exposed to it used in that fashion through US films - though it lacks the impact that the word has in the same film here - at least here within my cultural reference.

It is now becoming extremely surreal seeing the word “cunt” so often. Say a word often enough and it begins to lose all meaning completely and starts to just seem weird. I think I have now reached that point with this word.

I think we’ve found some concord anyway. Zabali (that is a tricky name for me to remember, fo some reason), I was quite satisfied with your last post. I see no need for us to talk past eachother anymore. Let us call it a day and be friends. Until next time, of course ;).

pan

Dangerosa, all I can say is that if a word really is used – and received, I guess – in all innocence of its connotations, context and cultural significance then that word cannot be anything but harmless. Even the word “nigger”. The collection of syllables has no meaning in and of itself.

I’m not sure where that gets us though. We seem to have entered discussion for the sake of discussion.

pan

I did not say the ones who repeated the slur did not get my ire. I DO blame the smearer/rival.

Why do you want to absolve this word? It’s(cunt=slur) a cultural quirk, and all I ask is that care be taken when that word is used because of this fact. I know that where you live it has a different meaning.

I related an incident I had personally witnessed to explain just how bad a slur the word is here, where I live. Often the word is used, without the anecdotes, the smearer just wanted to insure the ruination of the person and so told her tale. People know what a “cunt” is, it usually goes without explanation if it’s used as a slur. (Did you notice that Dangerosa related that at her workplace that slur is a un-appealable, offense that will get her fired?) If the smearer had used the word prick, it would not have been nearly as bad, and likely would have garnered giggles. Fair, logical or not, that’s the way it is here. Cunt really is a slur that condems/shuns the person it’s used against.

You are trying to point out that words are just words. Well, yes in a way. Still, you wouldn’t ask a strange American if he had a “fag” would you? Probably not, because "fag’ means gay person here, but it means cigarette there. You also wouldn’t do as the teenagers IRL around here do, and use “gay” and “lame” interchangably, because it would offend some people here. Of course you must take into account how your listener could interpret your words before you use them.
Words have intent, and often layered meanings. Because of this, words can be blamed for incidents, even though they were uttered by a person. Yes, in the end it’s the person’s intent that makes the difference. Still you can’t deny that certain words/phrases hold more “weight” than others. Take “dog” versus “pit bull”. Which would you be more wary of? They are almost identical in definition, but “pit bull” has subtle nuances that “dog” does not. It brings to mind a subtly different idea/image/emotion.

This is the same with “cunt”. It just has nuances that the other insults don’t have. It “packs more punch”. If it didn’t, then why is it that Dangerosa will get fired right away if she uses that slur at her workplace? Why is this true, if the word is only a word and as such “can do no actual harm”? It isn’t logical that this word should hold such weight, but it is true. I wish it weren’t. That doesn’t change reality though. :frowning:

However, this is a print medium, tone of voice etc. don’t always carry over. Therefore, you should be aware that your use of the word could be misconstrued by some of the Americans you encounter. Also, strangers (from this country especially)whom you meet in person could mis-construe the usage because they don’t know you. Is it really worth the chance you risk offending so badly if you use it too loosely?

For the record, I live in the USA. Just thought I’d clear that up. And although I live in MA, my blood roots are in KS. Salina, to be specific.

I’m not trying to absolve the word (although I think it should be absolved, as with many other words). I’m just astonished that one person using that word on another person would get that second person effectively banished from a community. And that one person invoking a single word would have such far-reaching effects.

As I see it, there are 2 possibilities:

a) Your friends are idiots for taking the word of one person, and driving another away because of the unsupported opinion of another. This is mob mentality at its worst.

b) You’re not telling the full story. The injured party is not so innocent as you suggest.

I’m more likely to believe a). OK, so “cunt” is a power-packed word. That does not mean that everyonw within earshot needs to believe it without question, and subsequently vilify the person to whom the word was directed. No offense, but if this is what happened, then your friends are a bunch of cruel, idiotic losers. I’ll even go so far as to call them cunts for doing such a thing.

IMHO this is what these words mean to ME:

Cunt=my vagina which BTW I LOVE because it brings me GREAT pleasure and has allowed 3 beautiful boys to make their ways into the world of the living
Dick=my husbands penis which I love for the exact reasons I love my cunt. That and it’s attached to the most wonderful man in the world.
Cock= a male fowl (aka rooster)
Pussy= my kitty cat
Fag= my best friends name for himself
Gay= happy
Bitch= a compliment
Twat= my first sister-in-law

I prefer to call underintelligent immature mouthy persons Assmonkeys or my ULTIMATE insult:

scum sucking dirt crawling maggot infested piece of shit

I was thinking the same thing this morning. Until this thread I don’t think I’d ever typed or said the word (I know I’d typed c*** and “the c word,” but I’d never just let that icky word be part of my vocabulary.) I’m also not one to type or say all those other loaded words I’ve been using…so while I started this thread hesitating every time I typed the words, they now just flow off my fingers like water.

In some ways its very empowering. To have language lose its power. In other ways, I find it rather disturbing.

(Yeah, I started discussing for the sake of discussing with this thread a while ago - but that is part of what I do here).

I didn’t ask you; I’m just here to offer my conflicting opinion.

No, I don’t know that. You seemed to be offering the symbolism as some sort of evidence for your position. For what it’s worth, I acknowledge that such symbolism exists; I just don’t see it as justification for a double-standard in language.

What you call “assertive” might be viewed as aggressive by others. Aggressive men are called names, too. Not usually “bitch”, but bastard, asshole, prick, jerk, etc.

That’s not to say that gender bias doesn’t exist (I think it frequently does happen), but you seem to be saying that the remedy is to only allow women to call men nasty names, and never the other way around. How does that help?

Actually, I don’t use the word in this forum. I used it once to describe someone who I thought was deserving of the epithet, and she had such a screaming hissy fit about it that I have not used the word since. I have no problem with simply acquiescing, in the interest of harmony, to the wishes of a small group of women like yourself who get your panties in a bunch over that word.

But what we are doing here is having a discussion about it, and when you start asserting that it’s o.k. for YOU to use the exact counterpart insult on men, the hypocrisy is just overwhelming, and I feel that I just have to say something.

Not only have I been to the U.S., I LIVE here, and what I’m telling you is that the word “cunt” does not mean what you say it does. The word that is normally reserved for women such as the one in your story is “whore”. THAT is a word that does carry connotations of loose morals and maybe lack of character and poor hygiene. THAT word also suggests a double standard where it’s o.k. for men to be promiscuous, but not women.

But the word “cunt” DOESN’T MEAN THAT. It’s just a really nasty thing to call a woman who is mean and rude. It’s unreasonable for you to expect the entire Internet to conform to the odd usage you believe the word to have in your particular little town in Kansas.

Neither do I. Were I to call a woman a cunt, it’s because she did something particularly grievous. But then, I’m not seeing your point at all. You first seemed to object to the word because it is so harsh, yet now you are objecting to its being used lightly.:confused:

Calling someone a “cunt” is not slander. As tdn pointed out, the word is not the problem. The problem is the person who slanders you.

And that argument would apply equally to the word “dick”, which you admitted you use yourself.

Sorry, but I refuse to apologize for having a penis. Yes, the penis goes inside the vagina - you have made that abundantly clear. If both genders had a penis, it would be pretty hard to reproduce. My vacuum cleaner plugs into the wall socket - does that mean my vacuum cleaner is subjugating the socket? You seem really hung up on this. Frankly, I don’t see how it’s relevant AT ALL to the subject at hand. Is the whole world supposed to tiptoe around you because you are afraid of penises?

[jack chick]
HAW HAW HAW
HAW HAW HAW
[/jack chick]

Acktuelly, I belief it vas da Ghermuns, Yah!

Maybe we could use it like money symbols

UK-cunt
US-cunt
DE-kunt

Whatever floats your boat!

blowero, I am NOT saying that we females get to insult the males using dick and prick, but you males can’t use cunt. In fact you have somehow read the exact opposite of what my words actually said. I very clearly said that I DON’T use prick lightly, in fact I can think of 2 times in my 30 years I have used it, and it was to the guy’s face when I told them off for their asshatry. I’ve never used that word here. I can’t control others, who use prick/dick often, and lightly here in RL. I doubt they will be posting here on the SDMB, so it’s a non-issue.

I don’t know your age, but you might not have heard the word used at all really. It’s been within the past decade or so that people have become bold enough to utter it baldly. Before that it was one of those “mouthed” words around here. It was so terrible, that my peers would mouth it instead of say it baldly to describe a person.

My point about the “alpha females” was, that for some reason females who would not be considered aggressive IF they were males, are thought of as behaving aggressively when they assert themselves and move to do/get what they want. Yes, it’s sexist. Yes, it should have died out long ago. It hasn’t.

Please try to keep up, don’t disconnect halfway through the post. If you begin reading it, please pay attention and finish it. This is what it seems you are doing, because if you had contiuned reading the post you quoted you might not have misconstrued it, and seen “hypocrisy” where it doesn’t exist. Also, you are several posts behind, in that the one you just replied to is not my last post, and there have been other Dopers that posted too. I suggest you read them thoroughly, because I’m not asking the entire internet to conform. I’m just asking for consideration on these boards, and of course I’ll reciprocate. Is all of this finally clear to you now?

Yes tdn, the people who bought into the ploy weren’t too bright, and I don’t hang around with them much because of that incident. I don’t want them to turn on me. Those particular people aren’t considered “friends” they are acquaintances that a couple of my friends hang out with. My friends and I were hanging out with these people and with smearer. My friends went along with the smearer at first, until I got them in private. Sorry for the confusion on that.

Unfortunately, harsh and egoistic as it may sound I’m surrounded by “idiots”. The people in this town just aren’t bright at all. This does not mean some of them don’t have hearts of gold, it just means that I have to be wary when dealing with them so I don’t get “bitten” becuase they believe anything they are fed verbally, so can easily be turned against me.

I’ll say again, I am asking those (mostly UK) Dopers who use the word lightly, to ease up and be more careful when they come here to the SDMB, and if they ever meet me (and others, who also know that word as a slur) in person too. I am asking them to be kind, and to do this out of respect due to the fact that it greatly upsets more than one Doper when they hear it used in RL, and can be misconstrued and cause “bad vibes” if used too lightly here. This isn’t the first time this word has come up, and caused an uproar, I’m just asking that the next uproar be prevented by people on both sides showing courtesy and understanding.

You who use it lightly might forget and use it, and those of us who know the word as a terrible slur may end up being upset by it if we forget you didn’t mean it that way. (Of course both sides will be pretty sheepish once the misunderstanding is cleared up.) I’m not saying I’ll throw a hissy fit, I haven’t yet.

I came here to try to explain why the word is so offensive in some places. I believe I’ve “gotten through” to at least 2 people here, and that we have a reciprocal understanding to try not to offend each other here on the SDMB, or if we should ever meet at at a Dopefest. That’s all I was aiming for, a mutual understanding.

I’m interested to see that Kayeby says that cunt is perfectly OK in her circles because in my circles it’s most definitely not an OK word. I can’t think of a woman I know who would use it and I don’t know any men who regularly use it in my hearing.

I don’t like the word. I can follow the objections to prick and cock as a parallel usage but for me at least, prick and cock have been devalued as insults because of their frequent usage. Not saying it’s right mind you, it’s just how I’ve experienced it. I flinch when I see the word, cunt, used as an expletive but not so much with prick.

More than one woman in this thread has said they’ve got no problem with the word cunt.

I’m one of them.

I’m surprised no one mentioned “Paki” yet. That’s pretty much the exact opposite to “cunt” (in the UK/US sense only).

Sorry, but I don’t think anyone has made a case for “cunt” being a slur that’s on a par with “nigger”, “kike”, “jap” or what-have-you. If it were truly a word that degraded women as a group, then I would object to anyone ever using it. But given that similar slang-words for genitals get tossed around all the time, it doesn’t make any sense to single out this particular word, while saying you’re not bothered by any of the other ones. If you’re just bothered by swearing in general, I would suggest not reading any threads in the BBQ Pit. If that particular word makes you wince, and brings up connotations to you of being oppressed, subjugated, or stereotyped, I think it says more about you than it does about the person who used the word. So rather than trying to get the whole world to come around to your minority point of view, it might be easier to just deal with it.

Eh, Blowero, kike doesn’t distress me in the slightest. Zero negative connotations because it’s not a slur which was/is used where I live. I’m not going to say on an international messageboard that other people have to deal with it because it doesn’t distress me. I simply respect that it’s not a word which is OK to use. I’d like a similar courtesy with regards to cunt but I’m pretty certain I’m not going to get it.

Life goes on.

And as previously stated, the chief reason you’re not going to get it is that there is a constant influx of new people.

Let alone the fact that the offense taken by some seems actually to be a minority opinion. At what level do we cease to use a word? When it causes offence to 100? 10? 1?

pan

Sigh. Here we go again

Cunt is not hate speech. It is not a divisive term used to single out a group of people for prejudice. As such, these repeated analogies of cunt to fag, kike or nigger are completely invalid.

For example, the EU uses the following definition of hate speech
“any written material, any image or any other representation of ideas or theories, which advocates, promotes or incites hatred, discrimination or violence, against any individual or group of individuals”

As cunt is used against men and women, and as there are male swearing equivalents, how can it be a term used to promote hatred or discrimination against a specific group?

Can I please ask one more time - why is it acceptable to use male sexual organs as an insult, but not female?

Personally I would not use either term in polite company. What I do object to though is the hypocrisy of someone who will happily use terms such as dickhead and prick but then finds offence at the word cunt.

It’s called a double standard, Gary. Nothing more or less. All you’re going to hear as an explanation is a bunch of sophistry.

I might suggest that those who hate the word, cunt, being used to describe an unpleasant person, male or female, not use it themselves.

Yes, some cretins use that word to describe all women. They are very rare in my experience. Frankly, I’ve heard more women refer to men in general as ‘pigs’ than I’ve heard the other.

I, like others, rarely use it to describe someone. I think it can be a very sexy word, and why would I want to insult something so lovely by associating it with someone I find utterly contemptible?

Zabali, I agree with you that some may choose not to use it out of kindness or respect for others’ feelings. Please understand that others don’t mean offense by casual use of the word. It is considered the vilest of insults where you come from. Fine. It’s an awful big world though, and if I tried to impose the provincial attitudes of the small town I grew up in, I would have a pretty rough time of it.:wink:

It’s not hate speech in the league of nigger, spic, kike, etc., any more than me calling someone an asshole is hate speech beyond the personal. Sure, some misogynists use it. So what? The great majority of times I hear it used is as a specific, personal insult.

In no sense whatso ever.

Paki is a racial slur, cunt is not.