Nope. If I wanted to personally insult you I would take it to the Pit. I said that what you claimed was typical of the mindless horseshit that I am hearing all the time re our current PM.
I don’t know that you are a nuthug, nor do I know that you are self-pitying. I do know (I think) that you are a Tory.
To clarify Leaffan is not, to the best of my knowledge, a Tory nuthug.
So do you have anything substantive to say in response to my post(s) or do you just want to accuse me of cowardice and such some more.
Some in this thread**** (cough, Leaffan, cough)**** certainly sound like Tories: Whine and cry that people were mean to them, and make a big freakin deal about it.
This whole thing is pathetic. I agree with Elizabeth May.
But then like most of her very reasonable comments, she’ll be shouted down by partisans.
I do. Your post is an unnecessary escalation over a relatively unremarkable incident. Trudeau, having small children, should know to keep his hands to himself, the opposition should probably HTFU and the rest of us should relax and remind our representatives that we expect better behaviour from all of them.
No, not really. Like I said, I’m not foaming at the mouth over it. I just know that had the Conservatives done this the media and public outrage would have been enormous. I’m a Conservative, sure. But don’t conflate that with American conservatism.
I’m pro-choice, pro-immigration, pro-feminisim, transgendism and just about all other social equalities. The Conservatives never did anything to make me distrust them on these fronts.
The man was standing right next to his seat and nobody was in his way.
You appear to be confused as to the events that took place. Trudeau grabbed the Conservative Party Whip, Gordon Brown, and tried to push his way to Brown’s seat. The Government Whip is Andrew Leslie and no one was stopping him from sitting down.
To have a vote take place, Leslie could have taken his seat and the vote could have proceeded. There is no rule that says both whips must be seated.
So either Justin Trudeau doesn’t know Parliamentary procedure very well, or he just wanted to make a show.
I’m going to be out of internet range for the weekend. So if it seems like I’m avoiding this topic now, it’s not by choice. Well, I suppose it is by choice regarding my destination for the long weekend.
I don’t think that would have happened. As I understand it, the two Whips together advise the Speaker that they’re ready for a vote, so that neither side is caught by surprise.
That shows up in the video clip taken from the perspective of the Speaker’s chair: you see the Government Whip and the Opposition Whip start up the aisle together, but the Government Whip gets to the front alone, looks over to his right, and then looks puzzled that the Opposition Whip isn’t there. He then bows to the Speaker, meaning the Government is ready, and waits.
I don’t think that if he had just sat down the vote would have proceeded, because the Opposition Whip had not indicated to the Speaker that they were ready to vote.
I am sure that’s the way it usually works. It is a fact, however, that it is not necessary. And had Trudeau wanted to have things done the usual way, he could have asked the Speaker to do something. He acted quite stupidly.
Cite, please? my understanding is that parliamentary procedure is designed in part so that votes don’t occur until both the Government and the Opposition indicate they are ready, but i could be wrong.
And you aren’t her, so please tell us again how it made you feel…
Look again and see how Brown is walking when being dragged. He is leaning backwards and resisting once he clears the person that had been standing in front of him. It isn’t terribly obvious because it is only a couple of steps, but he is obviously stiffed kneed trying to push back.
So, the chief lawmaker in the land shouldn’t be held to the legal definition of the law? Then whoever should be? Should not the law be changed to allow exceptions for popular people or those with good hair or whatever reasons you believe should make people be above the law?
Only ‘real’ men should be allowed to assault people.
You didn’t object when someone claimed they were devious masterminds capable of fooling our intrepid PM. I will flat out state that the NDP are gormless fools. I hold a lesser opinion of those that vote for them, though.
I have worked in some pretty rough places, Yemen and Chad. I have seen people do similar. Each and every time they were put on a plane and sent home never to be seen in that workplace again. Now if that makes me a shrinking violet for expecting my co-workers not to place hands on me, then so be it.
I posted the law, you just need to read it. He INTENTIONALLY grabbed Brown. It wasn’t unintentional. If someone was going through the crowd intentionally bumping into people, then they would have committed assault as well.
Where did this take place? The HOC. What is the HOC full of (other than shit)? Politicians. What do Politicians attempt to do? Score political points. One of the main jobs of a politician is to not allow the opposition to score points off of them. Sucks that JT doesn’t know this.
While JT committed an assault, I’d be surprised if he is ever actually charged for it. I’m just pointing out that the golden boy isn’t so golden after all and that technically he violated the law.
Schoolyard morality. Laying hands on your fellow school kids isn’t allowed.
Except there was a ‘teacher’ in the room whose job it was to do this. He usurped that role and undermined the authority of one of his own party members. The Speaker is in charge of Parliament, not the PM.
And done the correct thing.
You expect this when it is in your favour.
So, no rules apply to JT then? It’s quite obvious he wasn’t going to visit the members of his party who sit on that side of it.
[QUOTE=Marleau and Montpetit] Appearance of the Whips
When the Government and Opposition Whips conclude that their respective Members are ready to vote, the Whips make a ceremonial return to the House, and the bells stop ringing. They enter together, proceed up the aisle towards the Chair, bow to the Speaker and to each other and resume their seats. This convention provides a signal to the Speaker that the House is ready to proceed with the vote. Once the Whips [plural]
have taken their seats, the Speaker calls the House to order and immediately puts the question.
[/QUOTE]
They add that there are exceptions to this practice, tied to the bell-ringing calling the members to a division. The bells normally ring for 15 minutes. If both Whips come in before the end of the 15 minutes and nod to the Speaker, the Speaker can chose to call a vote, even though there is still time for the bells. And if the Opposition Whip does not appear at the end of the 15 minutes and stays outside as a protest, the Speaker can call the vote anyway.
But it sure looks like there is a strong convention that until the 15 minutes elapses, the Speaker will not call a vote unless both Whips indicate their parties are ready.
[QUOTE=Marleau & Montpetit]
In one case, a 15-minute bell lasted 30 minutes pending the arrival of the Whips and this became the subject of a point of order. On that occasion, the Chair stated that the House should maintain the delicate balance which respects the spirit of the Standing Orders with regard to the designated time of division bells, without infringing upon the traditional role of the Whips. [259] On occasion, a vote was taken even if one of the Whips had not appeared after the bells rang for the maximum prescribed length of time. [260] In each case, the Government Whip re-entered the Chamber but the Opposition Whip, as an act of protest, remained outside the Chamber (sometimes with the entire caucus).
[/QUOTE]
Who committed an assault, in my opinion, on a member of the public. He may have argued that he felt threatened by the guy and took self-defence measures. Trudeau does not have that excuse.
The Prime Minister, as leader of the executive, does not have any personal authority over other members in the House. The Speaker is the person elected by the members of the House to keep order, and any complaint about the obstruction of a vote should have been directed to him. If every MP takes direct action to affronts in the Commons instead of relying on the Speaker’s authority, the Commons devolves into a donnybrook.
Then he would have been following the rules of the House.
I expect politicians to follow the rules and not assault their fellow MPs.
If that is the case, then Trudeau is doubly wrong, first for not raising the issue with the Speaker, and second for crossing the floor into Opposition territory. So by your own standards, Trudeau had less respect for Canadian parliamentary convention than the Opposition Whip.
I just wish the NDP would dummy up and join them so the left can become a meaningful presence.
Escalation? Esca-fucking-lation??? WTF Rhino shit have you been sniffing? Escalation my lily white… ohh… ummm… is this the sort of thing you meant? Ooops
Really though, I don’t feel that I escalated anything nor do I feel that I was overly partisan.
I understand that there are Tories. I get it. In my normal life it doesn’t come up. Reading news and the few message boards I do it does come up. Seems to me that there are two types of Tories:
People that recognize that there are problems and have thought about the best way to address them and are thus Tories.
Morons that pick the quickest easiest option and myopically strive to fuck everything up.
They are different tribes that fly the same flag.
I think that both groups are brutally wrong but I can accept group 1 as sincerely having the nation’s best interest at heart. Group 2 would be the aforementioned nuthugs.
As for expecting them to behave like adults because they are…bwaaahaaahaaahaaa!
We let them lie, cheat, steal, throw fits and generally act like two year-old children of committed crackheads. Once We start acting like responsible parents then we can start talking about reasonable expectations. Until WE do OUR job they will continue to behave like the pandering nibblets that they are.
Can’t fairly blame the media. If it weren’t for the other parties playing it up then the media would have done it as a one off. “Trudeau Storms The Sandbox” and we’d have had a national laugh at their collective expense and moved on.
But What’s-Her-Name-drama-queen-Dip-fuckwit had to be all traumatized by an elbow she’d laugh off at Wal-Mart, Mulcair had to play the powder-puff hero and to placate the easily distracted masses (by which I mean MPs since the general populace does not go squirrel everytime they see a chance to get noticed.
I’ve no idea about your relative rabidity. I can tell you that I am pro all of those things as well. You may even be in favour of workers’ rights, medicare, and programs for the poor. There is a pretty good chance that our lines of acceptance differ. There is an almost 100% chance that our motivations differ.
Where the right and the left differ primarily is in their attitude toward the disadvantaged and what emphasis we place on the effect of that disadvantage and the proper way to address it.
Everything flows from there - with tributaries of varying putridity feeding into and from each fork equally.
You are a Tory and I am not. You don’t seem to be a nuthug. You just happen to be wrong
I am not able to address the content of this post without being called to task for any number of violations (except being a jerk - I would feel thoroughly justified) and so I will simply say;
You sir, seem to have a view of the world which I would find to be of academic interest to experience for a half-day or so. It may even prove enjoyable.
I nevertheless fail to understand how one can function when their perception is so seemingly distorted. I can only pray sir that this is an abnormal state and will rectify itself in due time.
Until then sir I bid you good health.
Up and prorogue eh? Typical
The rectified version of the above:
"I am sure… that it is not necessary…
Trudeau wanted to have things done the usual way, he could have… acted quite stupidly."
I completely agree with you. I’m just glad that he didn’t act stupidly.
And so you should. But do a search of “politicians acting like children” + “Canada” and you will find 343 results:cool: Okay so I’m studying for my Google-Fu white belt.
Anecdotally I can say that I’ve read and heard many times about the childish behaviour of MPs, MLAs etc. A few years ago there was an ongoing discussion in the various media about the antics and lack of decorum amongst our elected officials.
Since when do they behave in anyway different than schoolchildren? Politics is the sandbox.
We, as the electorate, are responsible for telling Timmy not to throw sand. We as the electorate have failed and continue to do so. And then we blame our results for their failings.
Tempest in a teapot. JT apparently got impatient/lost his temper. Clearly not his finest moment. But he recognized he was wrong and has appropriately apologized. And now, moving on…
The irony is that Trudeau’s intervention, which was designed to keep things moving on the assisted suicide bill, will likely delay it past the deadline set by the Supreme Court. The Commons is likely to be tied up over this issue for the next week, and the Senators have said they will need more time to review it.
