The cretins next door critique my demand letter (Attorneys especially welcome)

The BBQ Pit
1

Well some of you may remember a thread of mine awhile back regarding my neighbors marauding rottweiller and the invisible fence. As a follow up, we eventually got documentation (pictures and movies) and the animal crontrol officers declared him a “potentially vicious dog” and fined them. The neighbors then requested a court hearing to contest the determination and fine, for which they did not appear, and so a judgment was filed against them.

Consequently, they have erected a spite fence, still open at both ends so the dogs may still come through, and painted it four or five different colors on our side. They have thrown dog shit in the driveway, placed a glass bottle behind my car for me to runover, and left a big stolen highway cone in the driveway last night.

Anyhoo, I’ve composed the following letter to send them and would like you guys’ input, especially any attorneys on the board. (Please forgive the length of this post!)

Cretin and Bimbo,

This letter is to advise you that your recently constructed “fence” separating the front portion of our respective properties is in violation of Chapter RCW 7.48.010 of the revised code of Washington and the common law and may therefore be the subject of an action for damages and/or further relief in a civil lawsuit.

Accordingly, I demand abatement of aforesaid violation within thirty days, such abatement consisting of one of the three following options:

  1. Removal of said fence;

  2. Painting the side of said fence that faces my property a uniform color appropriate to outdoor fencing in the neighborhood, or;

  3. If the choice of colors and designs you have chosen to paint is so aesthetically pleasing to you, duplicating said pattern and colors on the side that faces YOUR property.

In the event that this violation is not abated within thirty days, or if there is any further harassment (Chapter RCW 9A.46.020) or criminal trespass (Chapter RCW 9A.52.080) from either of you, your guests, or your animals, I will have my attorney file suit for dimages, relief and legal expenses in civil court.

Permission granted to access my property for the purpose of repainting the fence is limited to that purpose only, and no other permission is granted or implied by this letter and any other such access will be considered criminal trespass.

From Pohjonen & Sister
Any thing I missed?

2

I’m no legal eagle, but I would seriously consider not addressing it to “cretin and bimbo,” which I am obliged to tell you is an excellent name for a duet.

:stuck_out_tongue:

3

I’d think they’d have a loud, late night party to celebrate the fence painting, a bring-a-brush party for their closest and most leery friends.

I gues you know the course is set; passive-aggressiveness escalating to vindictiveness, to petty direct acts to potential violence.

I’d suggest breaking the mould and not living the cliche by being a grown-up act because it’s just going to become a bigger and uglier.

Yeah, it’s all their fault and why should you, blah, blah, blah . . . Invite them to dinner, it’ll blow them away.

4

and serve them their dog shit as an appeitizer?

5

Thank you Friedo. However, if and when the actual letter is sent, it will be addressed to their actual names.

Oh, and London, things have already been escalated by the duet. In my experience, turning the other cheek will only result in TWO very bloody cheeks. Jesus I’m not. And, by the way, I’d rather have the corpses of Uday and Kusay over for dinner, or maybe Osama bin Laden or Ted Bundy.

6

Yeah, we know.

7

I’d work on the phrasing of

or leave it out entirely. The first two resolutions you offered them are plenty.

8

No.

9

I opened this thread because it said “attorneys especially welcome.” Nice to be welcome somewhere :slight_smile:

Anyhoo, my question to you is whether the law you are making use of requires you to give notice and an opportunity to cure. If not, I’d be tempted to go straight to court (after photographing the fence of course.)

The reason is that (1) in response to a demand letter, they might kinda comply but not really, making your case more difficult; (2) when the process server shows up at the door, they might hire an attorney who will convince them to cool off.

I would also advise you to install a hidden surveillance camera or three around your property. You don’t want them fixing the fence problem and then retaliating in other ways that you cannot prove.
(standard disclaimer about legal advice)

10

IANAL. My advice is to be cool. Whatever they may richly deserve, keep in mind that you want this problem to go away. An ongoing hassle for you where you feel in the right is no victory. Let them know that their pettiness does not bother you, but that one way or another you want this problem to go away. Tell them that you felt frustrated and got the courts involved, but that that the problem going away is all you want - if they take the easy way and address the problem, that the end of it; but if everyone can’t settle down (include yourself in this) the result will be the same with everyone experiencing more unnecessary hassle.

What you want is to make it easiest for them to do what you want. Don’t increase their costs of doing what you want by pissing them off or bullying them, even if you feel justified.

Give me a tick and I’ll draft a letter.

11

lucwarm - Thank you for replying! I was reading the Washington State laws and it stated that the first step was a demand letter. It didn’t say that it had to be drafted by an attorney. Of course IANAL and don’t even play one on TV so if you think contacting an attorney straight away is the best course, I believe you. For those of you who suggest doing nothing, what do you think this does to the property value of the house and what do you think the chances of finding a potential buyer are with it there? Actually, we’re giving serious thought to moving.

12

Actually lucwarm, we already have one surveillance camera, but unfortunately it is useless at night. We’re going to look for a night camera online. Your good advice is most appreciated.

13

Simply combine the camera with a motion-detecting floodlight, like people use outside their houses. This should be a very cheap solution, and give good pictures too.

14

Dear Cretin and Bimbo -

This thing is getting out of hand. I don’t want to see this take up heaps of my time and money, and I’m sure you don’t. We both know this colored fence thing and the other stuff is not going to solve the problem. Maybe you didn’t realise how much of a problem we were having with your dog. I guess we got tired of trying to get you to see that, and it’s led to action in the courts. No-one likes that, but it’s done now. Let’s not make it go any further. If you fix the fence and stop your rottie from wandering this won’t have to drag on in an embarrassing and costly way for everyone. I know you’re pissed off. I am too. It’d be silly to make this worse than it already is. How about it?

Make it easy for them.

15

I find the letter to be completely in line.

16

Speaking from a wealth of experience in dealing with criminally-minded harassers, stalkers, and pathological liars, I don’t think in this case you will be best served outside of the courts. I don’t think your letter is bad per se, but I think things have moved beyond that. The sorts of sneak attacks they are doing are reminiscent of the sorts of cowards I have had to deal with (such as auto vandalism, threatening notes on doors, and “anonymous” mails), and those people need to be put “into the system” as soon as possible. Neighbors which have gone to these lengths and where the situation has escalated this much are unlikely to respond positively to such a letter. I would fear the risk of harassment increasing, or even a violent resolution.

I feel that you need to sit down and make an unbiased situation assessment. Fairly analyze all of their actions and the timetable, your actions and the timetable, and see where you may have done something wrong by omission or accident, and try to view them in the same way. Some people in life are walking-talking feedback loops, where anything you do to the situation - positive or negative - results in more extreme and further harassment. Even completely ignoring them doesn’t work, as they are so filled with self-importance and self-righteous indignation that they will take your ignoring of them to be an “assault” or “slam”, and this will just lead to further escalation. Or they will invent ways to be offended, such as “Why did they put that bumper sticker on their car? OBVIOUSLY it’s a slam against me! Oh! The irony! That does it; I’m breaking a window!” :rolleyes: Despite what our parents and teachers lied to us about as children, bullies, wherever you may find them, do not stop just because you ignore them. They need to be punished - publically, promptly, harshly, and with no mercy shown. And with as many people involved as participants or witnesses as possible.

If you see that your neighbors are in “feedback mode”, you need to involve the courts. If, however, you feel that they would respond positively to a positive overture, then try an effort at peacemaking. See if you can involve a third party, with the knowledge that if your neighbors violate the terms of the agreement after it is made, it’s going to put pressure on the third party because now they have to side against the neighbors. And if they don’t, then they look like the hypocrit they are.

Peacemaking is always better if there is a chance of resolution and the person you are dealing with is a mental adult who isn’t also a pathological liar. After all, you may want to go on holiday some day, and don’t want to come back home to see fire trucks parked outside your house spraying down a smouldering ruin…

17

Another lawyer checking in. First of all, I ain’t a Washington lawyer, I ain’t got a clue about the laws in question, and most important I ain’t your lawyer. If you want actual, valid legal advice, hire your own laywer.

Actually, in this case, it probably would be a good idea to consult with a lawyer before sending the letter. If they don’t comply (which I doubt they will), you will have to go to a lawyer anyway, so you should consult with one to make sure that what you are doing will be the valid basis of a suit under the specified section.

In my opinion (worthless as it is, see above), it is a very good demand letter. It reads like it was written by a lawyer, and a good one at that. It is clear and direct. It specifies the problem, the statute it violates, the suggested corrections, and the actions you will take if nothing is done. It is very even and neutral in tone, and quite serious. (It is written in a bit more “lawyerese” than I prefer, but that’s just a matter of style.) Do spellcheck, however.

My one strong view about making a demand, threat or ultimatum is that you should always be prepared to follow through if you make it. It sounds like you are, but you should have a lawyer teed up to go if he doesn’t comply. I also wonder if it would be better to be sent from a lawyer.

If you do consult with a lawyer, bring the draft letter. It is always much bettter (and quicker and cheaper) when clients understand the applicable law, their options under the law, and what they want done. That shines clearly though in the letter.

Good luck.

18

Anthracite. You have assessed them well. When animal control talked to them, your “pathological liar” assessment was right on target. They just kept insisting the rottie never left the yard. But as I mentioned, we had pictures and movies. They requested a hearing to state that the dog never left the yard, then in a lucid moment elected not to show up.

We did call the Sheriff last night and he went over to talk to them. They pretended they had been asleep, but he saw them skulking around in the house. I think he did somewhat put the fear of god into them, because he told them if he had to come back, they were going to jail. (probably an exageration, but hopefully an effective one.) But we are still left with the issue of the spite fence. It is actually iffy if we even have a legal case, but perhaps a letter from a lawyer threatening suit would be more effective than mine. But you are absolutely right. They are not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, and I think only the “system”, as you put it, will effect any positive results.

19

Inexpensive infrared camera + monitor combos like this one with outputs for VCRs can take excellent pictures in the dark using the infrared capability of the camera.

20

Billdo - you are quite right, it is best to contact an attorney first and we will. (patting myself on the back for your appreciation of my writing skills). Thank you for your kind words.