What do we lose? The Sinners already know who they targeted and presumably they’ll know very soon whether their recruitment was successful.
I can’t imagine how it hurts us if the Blackhearts know whether the recruitment attempt was successful.
Meeko, I think you(and we) are going to have to accept a relatively high level of ambiguity on the topic of ostracization.
Basically, it is like Haggle at this point, but the game runs more slowly and contains more conversation. Most likely, I’m guessing we will find out the negative consequences/ramifications of a ostracization. If it is a big deal, we will probably get a bit burned by it, too.
I’m far declaring the game “broken”. Ped designs the games very well and things usually look clearer when we look back on them with fuller knowledge.
All we can do is ostracize/execute to the best of our ability, hope to survive the Night, and wait and see what happens.
Oh sorry… should have made that clearer… yes the two things I listed are unrelated.
And Ed… it’s not your fault. I know better than anyone the position you are in. 
Meeko… my F4 button doesn’t seem to be stuck like Pede’s is… So I’ll answer a question for you.
**Someone was ensinned last Night. **
Maybe more than one person actually.
You haven’t placed a vote yet. I’ve never seen a bought vote that worked this way before. For that matter, I’ve never seen a bought vote where the person was able to declare that their vote was bought?
Will you vote at some point on the board? Or is it a secret process (like Pedescribe is keeping a secret tally?).
This really is like wandering around in a cave in the dark trying to find your way out by feel.
To be clear here, is that direct knowledge, a logical deduction, or an inductive guess? Because while I agree that that’s the most plausible scenario, I don’t think I can be certain (maybe the Sinners and Blackhearts targeted the same person, or maybe Telcontar or another protector protected the person the Sinners tried to target, or maybe they don’t have an active infection power after all, despite our assumptions).
And while I’m here, I might as well ask:
Do members of the Sinner faction at any given point in time know how many players there are at that time with the Sinner win condition?
If yes, do they know who those players are?
In pedescribe’s Terminator game, when a player got their vote bought(damn you, Almost Human), the bought player was allowed to announce it to the world.
So it’s not just me then?
Compared to when we started, I currently have the overall score as something as the following:
Town -1
Sinners 0
Blackhearts 1
Does anyone differ from this?
Overall score? In what way? We’re currently down 2 townies for sure(Tel and George). paul claims that a townie was recruited last night to the Sinners. If that’s true, then we’re down 3 townies and the Sinners have gained 1 member.
I was told that I cannot vote until the person who bought my vote decides on who I should vote for and sends Pede a PM with their decision. I was not told that I could not reveal this info to the rest of town… and since I am allowed to quote whatever I like here it is for you
" pedescribe pedescribe is offline
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2008
During the night…
Your vote was bought. Meaning you can’t vote regularly. Instead, you can only vote when whoever bought your vote tells you to (sent through me). "
So there you have it. Now you know what I know concerning the bought vote issue…
Oh sorry… does Ensinned mean recruited? I thought it was shorthand for received the Seed of Sin. So rather than what you think I meant… At least one person received the Seed of Sin last Night.
I was a bit imprecise earlier.
A strict reading of this says that, assuming that Paul is truthful, the Sinners tried to recruit somebody last Night. Their target can choose to join the Sinners or stay aligned with the Town. paul, are you going to get an indication one way or the other what their choice is?
It is logical deduction. I suppose I could make it direct knowledge though… more on this when I get a response from Pede.
Sorry Rysto… I have no knowledge of the recruitments themselves… just the Seed of Sin aspect of it.
No, and no.
Ok. I’m not sure what happened here, but I think I broke through something.
That, or I am finally getting how to play this thing. :eek:
I am not sure if what I offer below answers all of the questions currently against me, but I think it goes far in explaining how I view things.
I do not think we are going to get our answer to Ostracizing until we O a power role.
Spurious was an ordinary townie. As such, I don’t think there is any real way we can see him come back. Ostracizing seems to only care for power roles.
As such, that information is locked up today.
Let us look at what we do know instead.
If we Execute a Blackheart:
Sinners will gain a sinner.
Sinners still have all of their night powers. This could mean gaining another sinner
Blackhearts are denied a night power.
I see this as a +2 to Sinners. Personally, I see this as the Sinners “moving twice”. I will use this term again in this post below, and I will probably use it for the remainder of the game. Fair warning.
If we Execute a Sinner:
Sinners do not gain an additional sinner. (They simply gain what they just lost. It would be a wash.)
Blackhearts still get all of their night powers
A Sinner night power is denied. This might or might not mean that no ensinning occurs for the night.
If we Ostracize a Sinner:
Sinners are denied an additional sinner, because we did not execute.
Sinners still have all night choices that night.
Blackhearts have all night choices.
If we Ostracize a Blackheart:
Sinners are denied an additional sinner, because we did not execute.
Blackhearts still have all night choices that night.
Sinners still have all night choices.
**
Therefore, speaking logically, if we had perfect information, I think we would:
Execute Sinners
Ostracize Blackhearts
I think we are not asking the right questions / not looking at the right tells. **
I strongly believe that Blackhearts can also, in a similar manner, move twice. To me this is what fits the frame work of the game. I am willing to bet that we will get our answer to this question once we know for sure what Ostracism does.
Feel free to comment and add on to this. This is what I got, and I hope I got the math of it correct. I feel we can only win with adequate communication and information.
My confusion that I shared with you earlier, came because I only saw what appears to be a Blackheart night kill.
Whereas I thought that Execution helps Sinners, I also thought that Ostracism helpped Blackhearts.
At the time I spoke about reversing what E and O did, I was. wrongly, thinking that only Blackhearts OR Sinners would be able to act at night, which ever side did NOT get helped by the Town lynch vote. As I saw the NK as a Blackheart NK, I then, incorrectly assumed that I had my math backwards. That is to say, with the results of the NK being what they were, AT THAT TIME, I thought that my original thought was backwards, I truely thought at that time, that O helped sinners.
I hope you guys understand a majority of what I say here. I don’t understand part of it myself. The reason remains, because I am stll confused about all that O can do. I think I will remain that way (As will we all) until we can nail O down some more.
But, Hey this post took a long time for me, I hope you all take something for it. If it helps Town, I am all for it.
I would like to say more. I think you guys will fruitlessly disect this message for a while. So, I will take pitty on you all and stop here.
Questions I have, that I think we as the town should answer:
Did a Blackheart got to the Good Doctor?
Did the Doctor protect or otherwise negate a Sinner attack?
Does Ostracizing a Sinner work in a similar manner as Executing a Blackheart?
–Do Blackhearts move twice on the town Ostracizing a Sinner?
If I made any typos or grammatical errors, please fill them in yourself. I am not about to touch this post again, even with a NETA haz-mat suit.
True, but the town potentially loses a member. So from the Sinners’ point of view, executing a Sinner is as good as ostracizing a townie.
Here’s what I’m thinking - Tel had two roles, one of which was defensive (protection from NK) the other was offensive (force Sinner to become Town).
I am curious as to why he didn’t protect himself, as he would have no idea who the bad guys were, so protecting someone else would have been a blind guess. Unless he had to make a choice - act as Purger or Aegis on any given Night.
I also reckon the Scum got lucky last Night, but hopefully we have others with similar roles.