The daddy superhero and the sort-of-heroic thief dilemma.

It’s Saturday night, and Bob X–the ex-slacker superhero with Kryptonian powers and a kid in middle school–is popping corn with his heat vision while his daughter, Lynn, makes hot chocolate. They’re getting ready for the twelfth season premiere of Doctor Who (Thandie Newton is making her debut as the last Time Lord, while Marsha Thomason is in her second year as Companion), something they’ve been looking forward to for months. Just as they’re settling onto the couch, Bob’s cell phone starts ringing. He picks up reluctantly.

“You need to get to London double-quick, Superdad,” a familiar voice whispers.

“How’d you get this number, Arnie?” Bob replies.

“I’m the world’s greatest thief. Obviously I stole it. Now listen.”

Arnie is one of the lesser supers of Bob’s world, with teleportation powers and thrice-peak-human strength, reflexes, and speed. Using these talents and his computer hacking skills, he’s stolen millions in the last year alone; sometimes of his own initiative, sometimes on contract, always for the thrill. At least two big companies has been bankrupted because of his thefts and industrial espionage.

But Arnie’s not all bad. A year ago, he stopped in the middle of a jewel heist to stop a mugging, for instance, and the year before that, he saved two fire fighters who would otherwise have perished in a warehouse blaze–a particular risk for him because he can’t carry passengers when teleporting. The last time he got arrested, it was because he stopped in the middle of a getaway to administer CPR to a heart-attack victim he happened to pass by.

But back to the conversation. Yesterday Arnie stole a buttload of jewels on behalf of an eccentric billionaire. Upon delivering the gems, he discovered that the client was the head of a cult worshipping the ancient Iranian god Zahhak. Even now the cultists are using the jewels in a magic ritual to raise their deity; next they’ll sacrifice a hundred virgins to it, which will give Zahhak the power to drag Great Britain to its home dimension. “So in sum,” Arnie says, "this balrog-thing is about to literally drag England to hell, and two dozen guys with AK-47s are about to murder a hundred little kids. This situation just screams ‘Call Bob!’ "

Naturally Bob races across the ocean, arriving seconds after Zahhak steps foot on earth; it takes him half an hour to beat it to death and toss its corpse into orbit. Returning to London, he finds the cultists all beaten unconscious, the virgins unharmed, and Arnie being bandaged by one of the latter. The cultists tried to murder the kids during the bigger battle, and Arnie fought them alone and barehanded. He won at the cost to a bullet to the shoulder; Bob cauterizes the wound.

“So what now?” Arnie says then.

“Now I find some lead bars and mold 'em into shackles,” Bob replies. “As I recall, slapping those on your bare flesh will keep you from doing your Star Trek thing. Then I turn you over to the bobbies.”

“Don’t I get any consideration? I mean, I just helped you save the world.”

“You mean Great Britain–and you also helped create the problem.”

And saved the kids while you were fighting the big beastie–stepped up to do your job when I could have skedaddled to Paris or someplace.”

“You also could have declined to steal the Mona Lisa last month,” Bob says, “or to loot Samsung into insolvency last year. But you didn’t, because you’re a thieving adrenaline junkie, not a misunderstood antihero.”

“And you’re a demigod, not a cop,” Arnie says. “You don’t have to turn me in. Gimme a break!”

This discussion is not idle. Arnie’s teleport process takes about a tenth of a second; from Bob’s super-speed perspective, that might as well be a tenth of an hour. As they both know from the heart-attack incident, he can pinkie-flick Arnie unconscious before he can bamf and have him shackled by the time he wakes up.

That said: As a parent himself, Bob has a hard time not putting himself in the shoes of the virgins’ parents and is quite grateful that Arnie saved the kids. He’s tempted to let Arnie escape. Should he?

Sure, why not? Arnie did a good deed in the midst of a bad deed, and saved a bunch of people in the process. He didn’t know the jewels would be used they way they were, so he is at best only mildly culpable for the raising of Zahhak. It is also very probable that Arnie and Bob will cross paths in the future more than a few times, and a slacker needs all the friends and allies he can get.

Something’s not right here. The virgins didn’t get sacrificed, but Zahhak still showed up. Either he’s way more of a cheap date than anybody remembered, or Arnie kind of exaggerated things a little with that whole “sacrifice” thing. He obviously knew way too much about what was going on behind the scene and was probably in on the whole thing. He probably sent Bob off to fight Zahhak just to provide a smoke screen for the rest of his crime and staged getting himself shot just to see if Bob would let him off the hook. Plus, cool scar. “See here? This is where…”

In trying to keep the OP as brief as possible, I see I made it unclear. The gems were needed to open the portal, but Zahhak was only gonna chow down on virgin blood for its power-up once on Earth. Bob arrived just as the big Z did but before the slaughter began.

You’re right about Arnie knowing more than he’s admitting, though. I can think of several possibilities, but I’ll wait to see if anybody else chimes in with 'em first.

You don’t think he’s too irresponsible to be running around loose?

Yes. I suppose a “you have an hour head start” kind of movie-cliche getaway might be appropriate. But morally, Arnie’s sins are massively outweighed by his services, and considering the universe these guys obviously live in, Arnie will be critically needed to defeat some future great evil.

No. Bob should shackle Arnie and turn him over to the fuzz pronto; then he can later speak at Arnie’s sentencing (assuming he’s convicted) in mitigation of the offenses. The now-jobless people who worked at the two big companies that Arnie drove into bankruptcy would tell you that Arnie’s crimes are not victimless. A bad guy who does some good deeds doesn’t get a free pass on his crimes, but the good deeds should certainly be taken into account at sentencing.

He’s been arrested before and come back. That’s going to happen again if he gets arrested. But he’s also just guaranteed that he won’t trust Bob ever again.

What you’ve described is something Superman would do, and his villains always get resentful of this treatment. Plus, as has been established many times, Bob is not big blue boyscout.

Exactly this. Moreover, there’s always the danger that someone will eventually be physically hurt during one of Arnie’s thefts; there could be a trigger-happy guard, say. Arnie’s crimes are intrinsically dangerous activities, even though he seems inclined to mitigate that danger to some extent; society has a totally reasonable interest in stopping him.

I doubt Arnie trusts Bob now, except that he trusts him to clean up his messes. You realize that Bob was the one who caught him after the heart attack incident, right? That’s why Arnie’s asking for a bye in the first place; now that they’re face to face, he can only leave it Bob allows it.

And I doubt Bob thinks of Arnie as “his” villain. He probably thinks Bob is just barely superpowered.

“Eventually” be hurt? Let me re-read the OP.
::re-reads OP while nibbling on cookie ::

I don’t see a reason to believe Arnie is being non-violent during his heists; his acts of heroism happened incidental to the crimes. And if he’s been teleporting out of the way of bullets, as seems likely, there’s surely been some collateral damage, if only a ruined Monet he wasn’t bothering with that night. If he keeps on, one night he’ll be surrounded by cops who don’t know who he is and they’ll shoot each other in a crossfire.

And of course Valandil is right that the workers at Samsung are his victims too. Surely they lost their retirement when Bob (probably working for Steve Jobs) industrial-espionaged the company into the grave.

By services, do you mean calling Bob to fight Zahhak and saving the girls himself, or saving the firemen, the heart attack victim, and the mugging victim? Because I’m not sure Arnie should get full credit for helping out in a crisis he helped create, and I think the fiscal harm he’s done otherwise is about equal to the three lives he’s known to have saved.

Arnie’s conduct is akin to one bank robber stopping another from beating up / raping / killing one of their hostages. It’s commendable and should be a factor in sentencing, but he conspired to rob the bank. Even if he didn’t expect there to be hostages, he helped to put them in harm’s way.

I’m going with this one.

Let’s see: Arnie (a) steals millions of dollars, but AFAWK has never killed or wounded anyone, and also (b) has saved over 100 lives by his own actions, and has enabled Bob to save tens of millions of lives.

Lives v. money: how do you balance this moral calculus? Seems straightforward to me.

If I were a superhero, and I had the opportunity to arrest a criminal of the strictly-property-crimes variety only because he’d saved someone’s life, I’d pass up the opportunity, while making it clear that at any other time, he was still fair game.

I don’t want the risk of being captured to deter him from saving lives when the opportunity presents itself. End of story, AFAIAC.

All of the above.

Without Arnie the scheme would have been much more likely to succeed – they would have hired a different thief. So I think this counts.

I disagree.

But not by a lot. I think giving him a head start is probably appropriate for Bob.

I’m also assuming these guys are at least somewhat genre-savvy, and Bob might recognize that Arnie (especially if he’s a funny guy!) might make an excellent sidekick, and will almost certainly be vital towards saving the world in some future plot.

You don’t get to start a world-ending event and then get credit for helping to stop it too.

It seems the world would be better off with Arnie thinking about how to use his powers for good, rather than having random attacks of conscious in between making thousands of people lose their jobs.

ETA: Depends on whether you know what you’re starting, IMHO.

Makes me think of the Firefly episode, “The Train Job.” Mal & Co., working for Niska, steal some stuff from a train, but it turns out it’s medicine that a town desperately needs to fight an epidemic. And is discovered when returning it to the town (ETA: on the sly) after realizing what he’s gotten into.

IIRC, the local sheriff doesn’t arrest him.

Something occurs to me. Does Bob have the RIGHT to let Arnie walk–to arrogate the decision of what Arnie merits to himself?

I assume Bob has no clear cut legal authority in England, nor any obligation to aid in the enforcement of English Law. He also knows that if he turns Arnie over he’ll just escape custody or be given an absurdly light sentence anyway. So he should just be momentarily distracted by the pleas for leniency by the children Arnie has saved while Arnie blinks away.

Don’t think Bob has any legal authority to make an arrest on these facts. And even if he does, he needs to look the other way while Arnie escapes…assuming he wants similar tips from Arnie in the future.

I think there’s some additional information that we need:
(1) Are there large numbers of powered individuals such as Arnie and Bob in the world? Are there significant numbers who are basically similar to Arnie… going around committing crazy crimes but not generally hurting people? Because how Bob treats Arnie could have a serious impact on how those individuals act
(2) Is there a justice system capable of humanely but securely imprisoning Arnie?
(3) Is there a precedent? What’s the general feeling in the world about whether human law does/should apply to powered individuals?

But his heroic acts aren’t exactly incidental to his crimes - the simpler, easier route would have been to leave the heart attack guy, or let the firefighter burn. Why would Arnie go out of his way and risk himself saving random civilians right after beating up or killing a bank teller, or risking a cop’s life?

I have a feeling Arnie’s playing his cards cleverly here, and that Bob doesn’t have the full picture; maybe Arnie, when his jewel thievery went awry, rounded up a bunch of kids so he could “save” them after Zahhak was defeated. He knew Bob had a soft spot for children, so he planned it to get off scot-free. Either way, though, the fact remains that’s he’s a pretty powerful guy - if not in terms of raw superpowers, then in terms of intelligence. Not the kind of person you want as an enemy. Give him a talking-to about using his powers for good (or, more realistically, using them for slightly-less-bad), then let him go.

How many cultists did he just beat up without asking for authority, such that suddenly he has a change of heart and asks if he has the right to let someone free? The same authority that lets him decide to beat up cultists is the one that governs this decision.

For me, it’s the opposite of paying off hostage-takers. The danger behind paying off hostage-takers is that it encourages more violence in the future. The danger behind arresting Arnie is that word will undoubtedly get out. “If you find out about a mess,” villains will tell each other, “Don’t contact Bob. That asshole will arrest you.” Arresting Arnie discourages coming to him for help and encourages more violence in the future.

I think the harm of letting him go free, undoubtedly to steal more stuff from rich folks for different rich folks, is largely outweighed by the harm of dissuading other villains from going to Bob in case of emergency.