I’m guessing Garth, but only because their was no mention of soup, rushes, or needless internal dialogue.
I have to ask, because I honestly don’t remember…
Did Dany, at any point reflect that she had tried to get Drogon to fly her back and that he refused? It was like, “Well, he flew me here. Guess I’ll starve to death. Or shit myself to death. Definitely don’t want to hop back on the magic bus that brought me here.”
-Joe
I think she did try but Drogon wouldn’t obey her. Martin made the point in that chapter that the Targaryens of old used sorcery to control the dragons. Dany thought she could control them simply by having Targaryen blood. She was wrong, which is going to be an extremely important plot point, I’m sure.
Well, yes and no. Yes, she did want to ride Drogon back but “that was a desire
Drogon did not seem to share.” Drogon would not always follow her lead. The chapter said that Valyrian dragonlords used binding spells. Not sure about Targaryens, specifically. And I think you’re thinking of Quentyn, who seemed sure that his trace of Targaryen blood would allow him to tame the dragons in the pit. Dany used whip and word.
I noticed that too. The opposite phrase “Little and less” started showing up a lot toward the end of the book.
Ah, but words are wind.
You know nothing, Barkis is Willin’.
Just finished last night. I’m gonna side on the “liked it” camp. Yes, it’s mostly pieces moving into place, but what’s wrong with that in the 5th book of 7? I think the 6 year wait had people wishing for something that was never going to be.
I didn’t really love the Quentyn plot much on his own, but it was hardly pointless. He released the frickin’ dragons. That’s huge. As for Tyrion, he has a knack for falling into trouble and falling back out. It’s entertaining, pretty much the whole way through, IMHO. I was hoping to see him actually reach Meereen, but, hey there’s always the next book.
I couldn’t believe that after hoping for Theon’s death and dismemberment I actually felt sorry for him as Reek. That’s awesome writing IMHO. And the Boltons are suddenly the most despicable family in Westeros, a title which I thought could never be wrested from the Lannisters, until the Freys, and then I thought the Freys had a lock until now. I thoroghly enjoyed the whole Manderly/Frey/Bolton stuff. The North is still the heart and soul of these books, IMHO. Stannis trudging through the snow Napolean style was depressing and hilarious all at once. As Robert’s “rightful heir” you start out rooting for him, but you quickly see why nobody thinks he’d make a good king. He’s such a nebbish. Ramsay’s letter to John made me shiver and re-read it. I do think Stannis is dead, (And thanks for putting him out of his misery, Boltons) though I’m curious to find out how, and how Theon and Jeyne escaped.
Regarding Dany, I think her plotline makes perfect sense. It kind of shows the fallacy of bad-ass-ness. Dany did some cool bad ass stuff last time around, freeing the slaves, taking the unsullied, burning the Wise Masters… and what does it get her? She rode into town, kicked the anthill and now sees what a mess she made of it. She’s completely right to try to stabilize Meereen before moving on to Westeros. In another series, she might have just taken over, freed the slaves, become worshipped and moved on with a new host of loyal (leal?) followers. But from the beginning of ASoIaF, we’ve seen good intentions cause more misery than anything else. It’s a consistent truth in this world, and Dany never really learned it until now (even with the example of Mirri Maz Duur.) And her riding the dragon was just as cool as I’d hoped. Can’t wait to see that play out in the TV show.
I’ve never really cared for Davos, and saw him mainly just as the POV character to keep tabs on the Stannis side of the plot. But with Stannis at the wall, Jon took that spot, so I was happy to hear of Davos’s death in AFFC, and kind of bummed to see him alive in ADWD, but his scenes with Manderly were actually entertaining, and putting him on the trail of Rickon actually made me want to come back to him for more.
Recognizing Bloodraven as the greenseer made me feel all smart for having read the Dunk & Egg books. A very nice tidbit to put in.
I will admit that was bothered by the repetitive “words are wind,” “not wrong” “nightsoil,” and “leal.” I get the feeling that he delivered the book so late there wasn’t time for proper proofreading and editing. Also, the Aegon thing is out of nowhere, and kinda lame. And I would’ve liked more Brienne than just revealing she’s alive. (like finding out how) And it does seem odd that Jon would leave the wall based on that letter. But those are nitpicks. Overall, I was content to strap in and let Martin take me on another ride through his world.
One of the dragons had already been released - there was no reason it couldn’t have been all three. Or, some of the Harpies kill the guards and let them loose to weaken Dany’s power.
I still maintain that following his trek across the continent was pointless.
-Joe
See this I think is actually somewhat obvious. When we last saw Brienne she was about to be hanged and was given the choice between “sword” (killing Jaime) or “noose” (getting hanged). Then “she screamed a word.” Obviously she said “sword,” meaning she would go kill Jaime for Cat. The real question is - what is she *really *up to?
I know I’m beating this to death, but man it really bothered me. If his internal dialogue would have been something like, I’ve sat by when my family needed me before but this is the straw that finally broke the camel’s back - I’m outta here! then I could actually accept it a little more. But he’s actually saying to himself, The watch takes no part, etc. etc.. It just does not jive with his history and his character. There better be a good explanation. Or, of course, maybe he’s actually dead and that’s the last we’ll hear from Jon. I would be Ok with that, too.
Dany has raised those animals totally irresponsibly. I’ll get up on a related real-world soap-box for a moment: bottle-raised foals rarely turn out to be good, sane, level-headed mounts, because the people who bottle-raise them treat them like pets. They teach them cute (!!) tricks like putting their hooves on a person’s shoulders (I’m really not making this up, you can google images of it) and snatching at people’s clothing with their teeth. They hug them a lot and teach them NOT to have any respect for a person’s body space (which a mare and other horses would quickly teach a foal raised with horses) and basically spoil them.
This is very cute until those animals weigh 1000 pounds, their hooves are no longer weenie little things that are ok on your shoulders or feet, and their clothes-snatching and kicking behavior when they don’t get their way has escalated to actual, serious danger.
Dany raised those dragons like they were cute little baby lizards. The only command we see her teaching them is the fire command. She feeds them as much as they want, whenever they want it, without asking any behavior in return. She lets them run wild and spoiled, in other words. And then they’re suddenly huge and eating children and her response is to wring her hands and lock them away to pretend they don’t exist, instead of exploiting the maternal hold she still (at that time) had on them to try and TRAIN them.
The blood of cowboys won’t help you ride a wild mustang. I think everyone was expecting there to be some simple magical ability that would let the dragons be ridden, and I was actually really glad to see it play out this way. I love Dany, but she’s extremely flawed, and has no apparent ability to think or plan for the future.
Feyrat, to be fair about that, it’s been more than a century since there have even BEEN any dragons, and it’s not like Dany was raised with her family, with whatever dragonlore they still remembered after a century without any dragons. The only Targaryen who, as far as she knew, was still alive was Viserys, and he was no more than a toddler when the Rebellion happened.
Yeah, if only she knew some people who had some experience training wild animals with dangerous strength to accept human riders. 
That’s…a good point, actually…
That’s pretty much what I mean. She raised them like children and not like animals who needed to be trained.
Finished the book and yeah I have to agree with those who are disappointed. There is some good writing and interesting sub-plots but overall my take is that Martin has run out of ideas and motivation and is stringing the story along without any real momentum.
The quality of the writing is also down from the first three books and Martin is resorting to cheap tricks by lesser writers like the series of near-deaths. One of the things that most of us love about Martin is his willingness to kill off major characters. Now he seems to lack the guts to do that and instead resorts to trite devices like bringing his character to the edge of death and then having them survive.
The cliff-hangers are also annoying. In the first three books Martin delivered powerful climaxes which left us wanting more. Now it appears he has lost confidence in his story and has to resort to cliffhangers to keep our interest going. It is ridiculous that he didn’t resolve Stannis’s march on Winterfell which was built up over so many chapters
I won’t say I am done with the series but I am only mildly interested in the rest of it. In a way that’s a good thing because I doubt he is going to finish it. I expect he will take five years to deliver a final meandering effort.
The best hope for the series is now the HBO show. I have no doubt their writers have the skill to fashion an interesting season or two from books 4 and 5. Whether HBO maintains interest for that long and whether Martin allows them to make major changes remains to be seen.I wouldn’t count on the series lasting more than one or two more seasons. “Rome” was a very good show that had centuries of material to work with, and they only did two seasons — due, I’ve read, to production costs.
ASOIAF probably has even higher production costs, since it has bigger names in the cast, more varied locations, and more need for special effects. And GRRM probably takes a bigger cut than Suetonius or Plutarch.
The notable difference is that HBO learned that they shot themselves in the foot with the premature cancellation of Rome and Deadwood. I think the management has since changed as well.
I agree with the guy you quoted who thinks the show is the savior of the story. Martin could croak tomorrow, and I’d be confident in this creative team to finish telling this story even if they only had three more twelve episode seasons to do so. That may sound impossible to some, but there is so much dithering and pointless questing that needs to be cut out.
IIRC HBO has regretted the cancellation of Rome so perhaps that isn’t a precedent for Game of Thrones. My hunch is they will give it three seasons and then evaluate.
Much will also depend on what kind of deal they have cut with with Martin. Do they have the freedom to make major departures from the books and to finish the story if he doesn't? At this point, frankly I trust HBO's writers more than Martin after book 3. There is no way that books 4 and 5 will work as TV seasons without big changes.
GRRM said in an interview with Entertainment Weekly that A Game of Thrones had a smaller budget than Rome.
I have not seen any of the show yet, but I wonder how the 2nd season will do without a highly recognizable actor, such as Sean Bean. I believe the rumors about Gerard Butler playing Stannis were false…too bad.