[tangent]That’s really funny, I almost added the story where I said to myself “if Nynaeve tugs her braid one more time I’m throwing this book across the room” and then minutes later had to follow through on it. That’s about where I gave up on WoT. It’s also, I suppose, an argument for paperbacks over e-readers.[/tangent]
puts on Fanwanking Cap
Okay, so Asha got knocked out when the guy hit her on the helmet, right? So it’s dark, frenetic- maybe the guy thought she was dead. Then in the morning, when they count corpses, one of them turns out to be an alive, but unconscious/badly concussed Asha Greyjoy.
Easier than that, IMO: Stannis probably knew that Asha was commanding this post and ordered her capture. There was definitely enough light for the attackers to see that she was a woman, and the forces accordingly took her alive.
I guess I’m a voice of dissent: while it was certainly slow, and while it wasn’t nearly as kickass as Storm of Swords, I still really enjoyed it.
The repeating phrase I’ll point out is really just a single word. Ever since the debacle in DC, I’ve watched to see how folks use the word “niggardly.” It almost never comes up outside of snarky “watch me bait the PC police” contexts online, and I almost never see it in books; but it appears in each SoIaF book about half a dozen times. Dude loves the word. No problem with that, but the repetition of it gets a little tiresome.
I too will go against the flow and say I thought it was OK. The repeating phrase that jumped out at me was “much and more” there was a period where it seemed like it was on every page.
FINALLY finished the damned book. I’ve been so busy it took me three weeks to finish a 900 page book - pretty pathetic.
Anyway, I’m going to preface what I’m about to say by pointing out that I DID like the book and that I was generally satisfied with it. I’m also not reading the thread til I finish my post.
Having said that, I’ve got a list of bitches to throw out there.
First of all: I am beautiful she thought to himself.
Seriously? This book was a couple thousand days in the writing and that made it through proofreading? Or did Cersei do a gender swap when nobody was looking? Is she going to finally get her dream and become a swordsman? Or was it just half-assed proofing?
The other thing that bugged me was the foreward. I thought Martin would keep up the illusion that he knew what he was doing with the fourth book was “split” into AFFC and ADWD, but he threw that right out when he admitted that the books were parallel…up until, you know, they weren’t. Just really half-assed in my opinion.
My memory could be off on the previous books, but I don’t remember so many “clever” chapter titles. It was a little annoying, but it might have been a continuation of a pattern I’m just not remembering from previous books.
Now, some complaints about the story.
Jon Snow - Okay, so he’s dead. But of course we know he isn’t, because without him the entire story at the Wall falls apart. So, another false death. Otherwise, who is left at the Wall we care about? Dolorous Edd, maybe, but he’s not even at Castle Black anymore. And who gives a fuck about the Karstarks?
Stannis - Continues a life in which he has done the right and correct thing just once - and that was coming to the Wall. After that, he’s really like the book’s version of Captain Fuckup.
Cersei & Jaime - Didn’t really do much. Cersei is clearly done, at least mostly.
Arya - One of my favorites, but I’ve never liked training stuff in any movie or book. It always drags and isn’t that fun? And how did she kill the insurance guy? She slipped a coin into one guy’s purse, it ended up in another’s, and then the guy died?
Iron Islanders - Do. Not. Give. A. Fuck. Not even a little. Theon’s part lessened when he lost out to Asha, and Asha’s should have ended when she failed to get control. Eureon gets three(?) chapters where he’s sailing from A to B? Yes, clearly he’s going to be Dany’s ride, and he’ll at least blunt the Yunkai’s sea power, but we needed 3 chapters for that? Theon cringes, Asha sits in a cage, and Eureon sails. And we get how many pages of that? 100? 150?
Davos - Always liked him. He reminds me of Hurin from the WoT books. Just loyal, not special, not a superhero, none of that. Just a good loyal man. Didn’t believe he’d die off camera and didn’t think he was going to die. And I like Lord Lardass - I hope he does something worthwhile. I kept expecting his own version of the Red Wedding at “Arya’s” wedding, but that went nowhere. Got fooled on that one.
Tyrion - Probably my favorite character, and he delivers. That being said, “how many times can I fuck a character while he’s on his road trip?” is such an overused trope and it annoys me. I mean, FFS, he STILL hasn’t reached Dany.
Dany - I’ve liked her more than most people on this board. I couldn’t believe that she was keeping the dragons confined - almost as dumb as getting bogged down in Meereen. Fortunately, it looks like this bullshit should be over now.
Quentyn - Crosses the world, dies stupidly. See nihilism fatigue below.
I’ve reached a point where the nihilism is getting a bit too over the top. I know that these are not happy-go-lucky books, but really who hasn’t had everything go wrong? I’m pretty sure it’s just the Boltons. Jon sends some ships to save some refugees and they all get wiped out?
I’m also sick of the fact that everyone fails and falls down and dies - except the Boltons, because no matter what they do they keep coming up on top. It’s reached the point where I’m really starting to get tired of it. Is it still nihilism when you’ve gone past ‘nothing matters and nobody ever prospers’ and come out the other side to ‘…except for the sociopathic sadists’?
Anyway, off to read the thread.
-Joe
Lord Lardass’s homage to the Red Wedding was that he served up “pork” pies that were actually Frey pies.
As for Dany… it’s not that I don’t like her. I do like her. I just didn’t like her chapters in this book, because they mostly consisted of her sitting around in the pyramid, thinking and holding court. And we have been trained to think that Meereen is just a sideshow on the way to Westeros, but then she decides to stay for a while, which is highly disappointing.
And the sad thing is that it wasn’t even Euron, who may be the most interesting Ironman at this point, just for the sake of what kind of powers and allies he’s amassed, but Victarion, who isn’t even as interesting as Asha and Theon. We didn’t hear word one of Euron in the book. Also didn’t hear word one from Oldtown and Sam, which is what I was hoping to find out some things about once DwD “caught up”.
Now that I’m reading the thread…
I think Qyburn is truly a mad scientist type. Maybe the head is Robert’s and the body is The Mountain? That way they could legitemately have sent Gregor’s skull to Sunspear.
Honestly, she’s an armed and armored woman leading a group of man in the most misogynistic culture in a world full of misogynistic cultures. Clearly she’s going to be someone of importance.
I can’t believe that some people didn’t figure out the singer was Mance. Mance leaves with six women, a mystery singer shows up at Winterfel with six women. I wasn’t even proud of myself for figuring out this one!
It was clear that he was responsible for the missing Freys, but I’ll admit I missed the pork pie bit. It was a weak revenge - I was expecting Freys and Boltons to die from the pies. I was thinking that Manderly was going to sacrifice himself to take them out by poisoning himself along with them.
As for Dany, I wasn’t really talking about in this book, so much as there’s always been a lot of complaint about her character in general, how much she sucks, how much prophecies suck and since they’re about her she sucks, etc…
-Joe
…and have words always been wind? Because he’s hammering the hell out of that expression this book.
Clearly I mix them up. Oops. Eureon is Damphair, which obviously who I wasn’t referring to…
I don’t realisitically see how Sam can return to the story - certainly not at the wall. He might be clever, but it’s not like he should be out of Maester school in a couple years.
-Joe
Considering overused phrases, I still think Tyrion’s obsession with “Where do whores go?” through about the first half of the book was dumb. He kept acting like Tywin had given him a genuine answer, as if there was really such a place and Tywin knew that Tysha had gone there. It really was a false note for Tyrion, who wouldn’t have ever obsessed like that over what was obviously a flippant non-answer, chosen simply to antagonize Tyrion (ill-advisedly, under the circumstances).
Aeron is Damphair (which, on the first read through Swords (I think that was his debut), I constantly read as a single word instead of a compound (pronounced Damfair, which was slightly confusingly nonsensical)). Euron Crowseye is the new King of the Ironmen.
As for Sam and Oldtown, no, Sam can’t go back to the Wall this soon, but he became central to the plot thread of maesters+magic in his last scene. I want to see more of that particular thread.
I didn’t mind that repeated phrase. I thought that was well done, and showed that Tyrion was truly freaked out over murdering his father and his lover, and by Jaime’s betrayal. His obsession with his father’s last words seemed to be appropriate.
I think he overreacted to Jaime’s role in the Tysha affair, by the way. Jaime is as much a victim of Tywin as is Tyrion, and I hope they reconcile.
I was confused about this too at first. But upon re-reading it was more clear. She poisoned the coin, planted it on the guy who was on the way to pay the insurance guy. The insurance guy had a habit of biting the coins he gets to check if it’s good or not, so that’s what did him in.
Aeron is Damphair. I totally get you though, don’t ask me to differentiate among any of the Meereenese/Yunkish/Astaporian/WTFever, because I really, really don’t give a shit.
ETA wow, I’m way late.
She had noticed that the target always bit the coins to test them, so I read it that she slipped in one coin covered in or made of a poison that makes a natural-seeming death.
Couldn’t agree more. That was even more annoying than the endless descriptions of the clothing and appearance of spear-carriers, because I could skim over the boring descriptive parts, but I couldn’t skim over dialog, inner or outer, without fear of missing something.
There you go. I knew she’d planted the coin but I couldn’t figure out how it had managed to kill him. Forgot that he bit the coins.
I could forgive Tyrion’s obsessing over “where do whores go?” if he was actually, you know, looking for Tysha. But he’s not. It’s just a mantra while he does absolutely nothing relating to it.
-Joe
Regarding the coin, that’s also the method Jaqen uses to kill Pate in the prologue of Feast for Crows, so we know it’s a Faceless Man standard.
:dubious: Is this Word of God or fanon?
Does George ever confirm anything?
He does give the (exact?) same description of jaqen after he changes his face and the assassin in affc.