Oh, come off it. This is low-grade rhetorical junk:
X comes out with unfair, ill-considered and insulting detritus
**Y ** objects to it with a perfectly appropriate degree of feeling
X accuses Y of being ‘defensive’ and thinks that this defensiveness, and the emotion attached to it, is the issue
No, the issue is the ignorance and insulting nature of the original assertion (to choose to be childless = a ‘stunted’ outlook), and the arrogance attached to it. LBE, you didn’t ‘touch a nerve’. You just posted in a way which was inaccurate, unfair and insulting. Keep working on that ‘richness’ and ‘perspective’… you need it.
I’ve got some questions. What happens if it turns out that you don’t like your own kid? What can you possibly do if something about him or her rubs you so much the wrong way that you come to dread them? What if your kid has criminal tendencies? What if you lack the whatever it is to bridge the gap?
Just knowing by example that I have the capacity to create another human being that would find me so detestable that he or she would choose to go on drugs to dull the pain, scares me to death. I would hate for that to ever happen to me. I seriously would have no idea how to deal with it.
I wonder what you think. What do you suppose you would do if you were faced with a situation like that?
I don’t think I’ll ever want kids, and in repsonse to fishbicycle’s comment right above, I know I couldn’t deal with such a thing. I’m 26, I feel like I’ve made a colossal mess of my life, and I’d never dare inflict that on anyone else that I had a hand in bringing into the world. My parents wish they didn’t have my brother and I (they’ve told us often enough), and I would never want to feel that way, or have kids that I’d openly and honestly say that to. Fuck it, with all the physical and mental problems in my family and my own numerous shortcomings, I say the “curse” ends with me. I have no intention of ever getting a girl pregnant.
I don’t. And I must say, I am surprised by your attitude.
Have you read my response to your previous post? If you can’t remember which reply is mine, might I humbly suggest that you re-read it?
Let’s go back to my previous post and flip it around. What if I were to make remarks about how people who have no interest in learning do calligraphy are missing out, and are a little “cold” (because calligraphy is obviously so beautiful, and all). Imagine the response I would get if I made such comments. Imagine if I actually seemed surprised when many people said that they didn’t want to learn calligraphy, that calligraphy was something that it was fine for other people to do, but they knew that they’d be crappy calligraphers, or else they always knew that perfect penmanship was not going to be their destiny in life, or whatever. And imagine if I then replied and said, “Obviously some of you are very defensive and angry because you don’t want to learn calligraphy!”
I’d imagine that if I responded in that way, most people would say that I’d missed the point completely.
Look—it doesn’t have to be about kids. It can be about rock music. Classical music. Macintosh computers. Windows-based computers. Living in Alaska. Living in Alabama. Not everyone wishes to live in Alaska, to use a Windows-based computer, listen to rock music, no matter how fabulous someone else (or a lot of someone elses) think it is, or how “normal” it appears to be. And so when they get a “well, there’s something a little wrong with you if you don’t want to do this” they get annoyed. And rightly so. Because implying that there’s something “wrong” (even if you are “mild” when you suggest it) with them because they don’t adhere to your idea of “right” is rude.
Just be happy with your life and the way you choose to live it. It really isn’t necessary to subtly (ever-so-subtly) look down your nose everyone who is different from you in this regard.
Actually, that thread might be useful for the OP to read too. I think there were some interesting perspectives in that thread.
Like the OP, I’m also very young (21) and fairly certain that I don’t want kids. My boyfriend of four years is certain that he doesn’t want kids. We both come from happy, middle-class families, so there aren’t any emotional or financial reasons for us to feel this way; just personal preference. But we’re young - I wouldn’t be shocked if in 20 years I were a happy mother of five. I wouldn’t be shocked if in 20 years I were happily child-less/child-free. I wouldn’t be shocked if in 20 years I were driving around in a flying car. (I’d be shocked if I weren’t driving around in a flying car!)
I think 21 (or 24) is possibly too young to make any irreversible choices. But you should do what makes you happy right now, not what you think might make you happy when you’re 30.
Add me to the list of girls who never liked baby dolls, never wanted to hold anyone’s baby, and absolutely never wanted to have one of their own. I’m 31 now and nothing’s changed.
I fail to see the problem in this situation though, really. If he doesn’t want kids again, ever, he should get a vasectomy. If you break up later, you can still have kids with your next partner if you so desire. If you don’t but change your minds, there’s always adoption or insemination.
Basically, if he definitely doesn’t want them it’s 100% his responsibility to ensure you don’t have them.
The first couple of times I used it I felt bad for the people asking; because I am sure it made them feel really sick in the pit of their stomach for bringing up something so painful as not being “able” to bear kids. Yes, I was sterile by choice but they did not have to know that. I found it equally rude for them to stick their nose into my private life and giving me a hard time. Some people actually thought there was something “wrong” with me, being a female and not wanting kids. So I started taking the hard line and making them feel like morons for asking such a personal question.
In my line of work I use to spend 80 percent of the time on the road. Try raising a kid with that going on. No thanks. It isn’t fair to them and I happen to like what I do for a living.
I am perfectly happy with a wonderful husband, our 4 cats, a Golden Retriever, wonderful friends and family. We both have nieces and nephews and their kiddos, so the family name and gene pool is being passed forward. So the parents and grandparents leave us alone, and everyone is happy.
Wow. I just about have this very situation with my oldest daughter. I love her very much, but it’s very hard to like her much of the time. She’s suicidal, and self-destructive, and I’ve had to work hard to come to the realization that I didn’t do that to her. It’s something inside of her. It’s no more my fault that she’s “broken” psychologically than it would be my fault if she were diabetic. I’ve had counseling; she’s still going through counseling; we have some family sessions, too, although they’re not very successful because she’s not interested in getting fixed yet. I’m very afraid that in eight months when she’s 18, she’ll start making some very bad choices for herself, but I’ve already decided that I will be doing her no favors by rescuing her from herself all the time. Once she’s on her own, she’s on her own. I’m hoping that being on her own will force her to grow up some and live in the real world. So, to answer your question, what you do when faced with a situation like that, is you do the best you can, and let go of the rest.
As for “not liking” your kids, I think you’d be hard-pressed to find a parent who doesn’t dislike their kid sometimes. I always love all my kids (and I never, ever tell them I’m sorry I had them; I heard that too often when I was a kid, and it’s a terribly cruel thing to say). But sometimes the realization comes that “hey, if someone else’s kid was acting like this, I’d kick the little brat out of my house”. Of course, it is my kid, so I have the opportunity to instruct them on how to behave so they don’t drive people nuts. In fact, for me, consistent instruction/discipline is probably the hardest part of parenting. So many times, it would be so much easier to just ignore the behavior. But you can’t do that, you have to be on your toes all the freakin’ time.
Once, after all the suicide attempts, etc. started, my oldest asked me if I was sorry that I had her because she was so much trouble. I told her that all kids are trouble, and being a parent is troublesome, and anyone who doesn’t want to deal with that just shouldn’t have kids. I knew what I was signing on for when I decided to have kids.
True enough, though at that point it’d come down to a decision as to whether their life goals are compatible or not. For the moment, she’s ambivalent, but if the time came where she felt strongly that she wanted them and he was adamant he didn’t, then there’d have to be some serious contemplation about the future of that relationship. Of course, it may never come to pass, but at least if/when it gets to that point, as long as she’s not made herself sterile she’s got options still.
FWIW, in case my original post seemed a little callous: If I’m reading the OP correctly, he’s expecting her to not only agree to be childless, but bear the responsibility for not having kids by undergoing a tubal ligation. If that’s the case, then I reckon he’s a bit of a wasted effort anyway since it’s quite simple for him to get a vasectomy if he feels that strongly. If he’s serious about making an ultimatum to her that she either render herself sterile or he’s out of there, then he’s not really a ‘partner’ in any sense of the word.
Of course, this may not be what he’s saying, but I’ve not noticed anything in any previous posts to indicate otherwise, so my opinion’s just based on the evidence at hand. I rather hope to be corrected.
Well, see, I’m one of those (sometimes seemingly rare) people who thinks that there is no one thing that’s right for everyone. Having kids is not for everyone; being child-free is not for everyone. Why should anyone insist that one side or the other is wrong? I just don’t get it.
Thank you, norinew, for that eloquent, brutally honest reply. I’m sorry things haven’t gone the way they might have for you and your daughter. You’re a very courageous person to have had to continuously adapt to each situation. Acrimonious relationships are so hard on everyone in the family. I know, it was like that at my house. It has scared me so much that it will be OK if I never have any children. My wife also does not want to have any kids, so there is no conflict of desires.
I know full well that on the other hand, I might have a wonderful kid, and have the relationship with him or her that I never had with my dad, but the knowledge that it could go in the completely opposite direction is a very scary thing to contemplate.
I hope your situation improves for you and your daughter someday.
fishbicyle, it seems to me, from this thread and others we’ve encountered one another in, that your childhood might have been much like mine. My father was an alcoholic (got sober when I was 14), and my mom was verbally abusive. I knew, as soon as I found out I was pregnant the first time, that while I couldn’t control how my kid turned out, I could control what kind of mom I was. I made a conscious decision not to be like my mom, and did a lot of research, learning, etc. I realized that not wanting to be like her wasn’t enough; I had to decide what kind of mother I did want to be. Now, anyone who tells you that they’re a perfect parent is lying through their teeth, but all in all, I think I do pretty well.
And I think that you have something else to think about. You seem to like the idea of the cute things that younger children do. You aren’t likely to get that with his kids, and you may be okay with that. You may be fine with letting his kids fill any maternal urges you have. Or you may want kiddywinks of your own. This is all well and good.
What’s important is that you realize that either way, if you stay with this man, you are going to be a mom. Once a person is involved with a single parent, kids are part of the equation. From your posts, you don’t strike me as the kind of woman who will try to pretend that his kids don’t exist. I had an aunt who did this. I don’t really know how my cousin was affected, but I do know that from my perspective, every time he came to visit his dad for any length of time, he’d end up staying with our grandparents who were several hours away. My impression has always been that it was because his step-mother couldn’t handle the idea of being a mom for any length of time.
So recognize that you will be a mom, if you stay with this man, and think about how that will interact with your own desires.
I made the decision when I was a teenager (19) to not have kids. I did so not because I didn’t want the hassle, but because I didn’t think I would be a good parent to them.
Now that I’m older, so much older, I long for those young boy days…wait a minute (slaps head, shuts up John Mellencamp)…lemme try again. Now that I am older and have had the experience of being a stepdad, I see now that I made the right decision. I needed the time to mature and grow up myself; by the time I did, I was much too old to become a parent.
I’m happy in the stepdad role and have accepted that there will be no little Clothahumps with my DNA. At least none that I know of; I did have a pretty wild youth!
