The software isn’t very bright. We’ve had bridge threads auto-tagged “trump”. @What_Exit generally fixed those things. I can’t believe you haven’t noticed this before.
As a Jew, there is a very long history of Christians trying to force us to “come to Jesus”. I can tell you, if someone asks me to ‘come to Jesus’ I am about 10 times likelier to ignore their ass.
I’m still gonna vote for Biden, though.
https://dp.la/primary-source-sets/the-equal-rights-amendment/sources/1201
Yeah women reclaimed uppity from the patriarchy where have you been?
There’s an important word in that sentence. Can you guess which one it is?
Here’s an hint, you don’t need to reclaim words that are neutral.
Also, I didn’t realize you were Whack-a-Mole’s sock!
Undocumented immigrants will generally do.
Failing that… people?
It cannot be both that he was putting the offensive language in scare quotes to shame the people using the offensive language, and also that he was intentionally speaking the language of people whose vote he’s trying to sway (??). You’ve endorsed both positions.
If he was doing the latter, that’s bad. A lot of liberals have said throughout the Trump era that it’s bad to try to find common ground with racists even on non-racist grounds. I haven’t always agreed with that, but it definitely can’t be the case that it’s good to try to be a little racist so racists will like you.
If he was doing the former, I see the perspective that putting it in scare quotes to make a point isn’t as offensive as using it in earnest. That would be very different. But the whole point of using scare quotes or a derisive tone is that you actually do that. You aren’t showing any contempt for the word if you just accept the distinction and make a point based on it. Evidence that he did not show contempt for the word is that a lot of the people in this thread think it was a totally normal thing to say, and don’t seem to feel that Biden mocked them.
It seems to me more like we wish that was what he was doing, but in context of what he actually said, the only thing that suggests it was derisive is that it would be offensive if it were not.
Certainly it would be much more racist to say “yes, she was murdered by an illegal, illegals are murderers,” and just leave it at that. The rightward shift I am worried about is doing just part of that, and saying “sure, this illegal is a murderer.” You’re not taking the position of the raging fascists in the election – good! – but you’re conceding a little bit to their point of view.
I thought it was funny that if you start a thread saying you don’t want to hear about Trump, the software says “hey everyone here’s a thread about Trump.”
I didn’t think that was going to come across as insulting any moderators or implying some kind of conspiracy, although I should have.
Yes, that exactly. Sorry about that.
Where did I endorse the latter position? 'Cause I didn’t think I did that.
Do you exist just to denigrate the reputation of both crows and the state of NJ
No, I exist because my mom and dad fucked.
That’s how I interpret David’s position here:
Reminds me of a story (which I’m not taking time to check) that during treaty negotiations between Israel and Egypt, President Carter in a moment of frustration asked why the parties couldn’t just sit down and discuss things like good Christians.
Thereby undoubtedly producing a moment of total agreement between the adversaries; though I doubt that he did that on purpose.
Of course it’s a common turn of phrase. That’s why it came out of Biden’s mouth.
It’s a common turn of phrase among Christians. It’s not a common turn of phrase among anybody else; and it indicates an underlying assumption that the audience is Christian, or at least that everybody in the world uses common Christian terminology – and accepts terminology that sounds to them like having to do with conversion. It’s not specifically anti-Semitic, but it’s rather anti-everything-not-Christian.
Which is not, I expect, at all like Biden meant it; because he’s shown no signs of trying to insist on converting non-Christians. Unlike some other politicians.
Yet again – I don’t think anybody’s giving him grief over being upset about the term. I think people are giving him grief about
That “also” means he’s saying that Biden is just as much of a scumbag and racist as Trump. And that’s what he’s being given grief about; and appears to be refusing to recognize.
For one thing, I don’t know which it was, or even if it was either of them.
For another: yes, it actually can be: because it would be heard differently by different audiences. The people deepest in aren’t going to get the shame part, but they may on some level get the ‘our language’ part. The people not in as far may get the shame part. The audience that’s posting in this thread heard it for the most part in a third way, and flinched; though after flinching most of us considered the immediate context and the generally known history of the speaker. That doesn’t necessarily remove the flinching from the word – at least it doesn’t for me – but it does remove any flinching from the person who used it – at least it does for me.
And that is how to handle having been told that one’s post wasn’t written clearly.
From dictionary.com,
Outside religious contexts, come to Jesus refers to a meeting or moment where one undergoes a difficult but positive and powerful realization or change in character or behavior.
As far as I can tell it’s referencing Saul’s/Paul’s “Road to Damascus” conversion and . . . therefore is still pretty much anti-Semitic in it’s origins despite it’s non anti-Semitic common usage.
Amusingly if Biden had said 'see the light" instead, probably, no one would have been offended . . . despite that phrase having, basically, the exact same origins.
You guys are all so funny about this. You’ve shrunken down into this tiny little band of people with this tiny little narrow range of opinions, and you get so mad and then accuse other people of overreacting when they’re outside it. I can do a whole litany and invoke all the proper forms to avoid being “misunderstood,” and the only thing that matters is that you think, in the penumbras and emanations of the words I said, that I implied there’s anything else in the world that’s important besides Donald Trump, so I need to be humbled and admit my error and then I’ll get a little pat on the head. I can’t really believe the words I’m saying, so I must either be a concern troll Republican or I must be deluded and in need of a stern hand and then forgiveness once I’m back in the fold.
The fact that there is a looming specter of a different racist old man in all of your heads all the time that prevents you from reading what people write is not my problem to “recognize.” That is the entire situation here: you are mad about something I did not say. It’s very easy to say “Joe Biden and Donald Trump are the same.” If I meant that I would have said it.
Yeah, I know that meaning.
I still wouldn’t expect it to be used by anyone other than Christians. And it still contains conversion imagery.
– “See the light” by itself doesn’t work in that fashion; it would have to be “get them to see the light”, or something of the sort. And it isn’t only Christianity or Christians who use that light-is-good, dark-is-bad imagery; so yes, if Biden had revamped the sentence that would have worked better. The connection of “see the light” to a specific Biblical reference seems to me to be fairly weak, though Paul did report seeing one.
Oh, good grief. People say you should not have mentioned Trump and you somehow got that out of it? I don’t think you’ve got any business at all complaining about anyone else’s reading comprehension.
You appear not to recognize what the words you posted said. And you’re still refusing to recognize what those words actually said. That’s what I’m pissed at you about.
You said they’re both racist scumbags. You said that extremely clearly. I have quoted you saying it.
It’s certainly possible that you didn’t mean it. But that’s what you typed, that’s what you posted, and that’s what you’re refusing to retract.
“Refusing to retract.” Not exactly beating the allegations that you have a little bit of an overblown sense of authority in this dynamic, are you.
Of course I haven’t retracted it. That’s what I actually said. Extremely clearly, and you quoted me saying it.
There seems to be a lot of excluded middle here.
The president used a dehumanizing term regarding an admittedly terrible member of a stigmatized group. He should not be defended or excused for that, no matter what he was responding to or how common that slur was fifty years ago.
On the other hand, one instance of this is hardly the sort of thing to condemn or cancel a whole person for, particularly without giving him a chance to respond.
He’s somewhere between perfect and irredeemably racist. Like almost everyone else is this country, and the outliers aren’t on the “perfect” end…
I think that’s right. My stated position in this thread is it was bad and he shouldn’t have said it. I don’t really even know what it would mean to “cancel” the sitting president of the United States, but I don’t think an effort to try to do so would be a productive use of anyone’s time.
I do think there is more than one instance to draw from with Biden’s career, but that’s a much bigger conversation than whether it’s bad for the president to say “an illegal” murdered someone in a State of the Union address.
So you’re agreeing that you called Biden a racist and a scumbag, and in the same fashion as Trump is a racist and a scumbag; and that you were the one who deliberately brought Trump into the thread.
OK. You have appeared to me all through this thread, since that first post, to have been denying that you equated Biden and Trump in that fashion. Thank you for clarifying that. And you appeared quite recently to be complaining that other people, not you, were insisting on talking about Trump in this thread. Thank you for clarifying that no, you agree that it was you who did that.
I also disagree with you about Biden being a scumbag and a racist. Biden said something racist, which is not the same thing (except possibly in the sense that we’ve all absorbed some racism, which does call for pointing it out, but does not make everyone scumbags).
yes, what could be more amusing? you stirred shit and now we have more shit floating around. congratulations, Jimmy.