It’s hard to tell over this here intarweb, but did you actually say that with a straight face? You are equating every act of any peon who gets paid by anyone in our lovely guv’mint with an action of the actual governmental body?
Shodan, I will agree with you that the HR Director is calc.exe*. I was frankly surprised by this: the only objections I’d previously heard to Easter Bunny displays was from evangelical Christians who object to it as Pagan symbolism (exactly the reason why I like it so much).
But Tom is right: this isn’t the City Council acting, this is one employee. You could equally say that the City Council put up the display, given that it was a City employee who put it up. Once City Council makes a decision on this, then it’ll be time to accuse them of silliness, but not until.
And Ann Coulter is full of shit, as the folks at the church where I grew up would be happy to tell you.
- a PC tool.
Eastober Fest. Head to Schone’s in Stillwater and try and sell them on the idea.
You are now compounding the deliberate false claim of the OP with this sort of tortured logic?
While both persons are employees of the government, the “governmental” nature of the act is coincidental. Had the HR director claimed that the display was a SOCAS violation, you would have a tenuous point. Since he declared that his actions addressed the feelings of other people, your claim is unfounded.
He essentially said, “Considering that A predates B, how can A be a display of B?”
Your analogy says, “Considering that A predates B, how can B be a display of A?”
You’re right that his analogy is bad, but not for that reason. The Cross has been a holy symbol for long before Christianity came around; all the same, placing a cross atop city hall would be offensive.
Hmm…if you’d phrased your analogy as, “The swastika as a holy symbol in Buddhism . . . predates Nazism, so how can the swastika be considered an offensive Nazi display?” then it woulda been okay, I think.
Rereading the article, there’s this line:
That does sound to me as though the president of City Council is backing up the HR guy, for dubious reasons. Shodan may have been right after all.
It is quite possible that the council will support the HR director and/or that the council had a hand in motivating the HR director. This was my point when I suggested that “we find out whether the legislating body named in the OP actually takes any action.” That, however, was not how the OP was presented.
Daniel, you cannot get around the fact that whether a mistake or not the Op is misleading.
I know this thread is heating up (what with the Pit thread and the misrepresentation and all), but I just wanted to post the obligatory Bill Hicks Easter joke hijack:
- Peter Wiggen
Okay, let’s do that then.
While the crucifix is expressly Christian, other groups have used a/the cross in religious ways before Christianity.
I’m just offended that the thread title used the “A” word during Lent.
What does that mean? I don’t understand the joke.
I dunno: I was under the impression that the president of an organization can usually speak on behalf of the organization. If the President of city council supports the HR person, that is (until the entire council votes otherwise) a city council endorsement.
I could be wrong on this, though: my understanding is based on my understanding of how nonprofit Boards of Directors work.
In the Episcopal Church and, I’d assume, other denominations, you don’t say “Alleluia” during Lent, which is the season before Easter.
I’m just going to sit back and be quietly bemused by this. You see, in my city, every other firehall is having Friday night fish fries, and every restaurant in town except for the vegetarian ones has a fish special. Christmas? Easter? Unlike our evangelical brethren, we haven’t even managed to make a dent in Lent.
This looks like a tempest in a teapot to me, but no doubt the Christian offenderati will take great delight in pointing out the War on Easter.
Can I ask why? I never heard this before at it sounds quite odd.
Lent is a time of penitence, when we are supposed to make sacrifices and reflect on our sins. The joy in singing or saying “Alleluia!” isn’t compatible with that, I’m afraid. On the other hand, it makes the Alleluia’s we sing on Easter morning all the more joyful. In the tradition I grew up with, you’re not even to sing from Good Friday until Easter morning, (Easter Eve if you go to a vigil). My current church, however, has a concert on Good Friday, so this year I’ll be singing Handel’s Passion with the choir in German, if all works out.
That’s a very appealing tradition, Siege. I used to attend a Lutheran church that was similar. During Lent, the sanctuary was stripped to bare bones. Services were plain, and quiet, and dark. Then on Easter morning, the sanctuary was brightly lit, with flowers and banners everywhere and the choir singing joyous songs. It was very effective.
I want to reiterate my theory of holidays.
At least in the US, there are three types of holidays:
- Holidays that are celebrated in an almost exclusively religious fashion (e.g., Ash Wednesday, Purim)
- Holidays that are celebrated in an almost exclusively secular fashion (e.g., the Fourth of July, New Year’s Eve)
- Holidays that are celebrated in a secular fashion and a religious fashion (e.g., Easter, Hannukah).
Note that the exclusively religious holidays are pretty obscure holidays compared to the other categories. I think that’s because as a culture, we like our parties, our celebrations; even nonreligious folks want an excuse for a day of pleasure.
It’s rarely difficult to distinguish between the religious celebration of a holiday and the secular celebration. If I have an Easter-Egg hunt, a game of dreidl, or a dress-like-a-turkey party, it’s secular. If I praise Jesus’s resurrection, sing about how God saved the Jews in the temple, or thank the Lord for His bountiful food, that’s religious.
The government can allow the former but not the latter. However, just because they can allow the former doesn’t mean they have to allow the former. I’m sure that if I wanted to place a 1930s-style labor union display up in Carlotte City Hall on May 1, I’d get some heat for it, even though it’s secular.
There are some borderline cases, but they’re hard to think of. Performing “When the Saints Go Marching In,” explaining why latkes are being served (?), or reenacting Puritans celebrating Thanksgiving could all be border cases (although I’d be okay with any of them). For borderline cases, when they occur, we must apply our best judgment.