Correction: government must apply its. We don’t really get a say, except in the most indirect way possible as individuals whose views happen to coincide with the views of majorities.
That doesn’t keep us from mouthing off on the boards all the time about it, which is what I was talking about :). “We” here refers to us, to the extent that we’re making decisions about the matter. Even if the decisions are purely theoretical (as in this case), I think these are the guidelines we should follow for our theoretical decisions.
Daniel
Yes, that’s exactly what it is. First, we attacked Christmas. Now we’re attacking Easter. Next we’ll attack Palm Sunday. If all goes well, in ten years, all of you Christians will be fenced into camps with upside-down crosses tattooed on your foreheads. Ten years after that, you’ll be manacled in reproduction barns, producing babies that make the most tender, fatty bacon anybody ever had.
Get a grip.
Okay. Sorry. I would lay out the guidelines that I’d like to see followed (based on the Noncoercion Principle), but it would be called a hijack. 
Dammit, how are we going to celebrate PANAMERICAN DAY??
So a teacher who proselytzes her class is not an establishment of religion. Correct? Nobody elected her, ergo no violation. And no action by any bureaucrat is governmental action unless and until the governing body specificallly endorses it.
Right?
That’s not fair: if a teacher preaches about Jesus in a classroom and I start a thread saying, “School Board turns classroom into church,” I’d be incorrect as well.
However, I think that the issue of whether it’s the city council or the director of human rights who’s at fault here is a side issue, isn’t it? The meat of the discussion should be over whether the human rights guy acted appropriately, and I suspect we all agree he did not.
Daniel
I’m not following you. I don’t think the Nazi flag would be considered an offensive Buddhist display.
I think the difference between a swastika and the Easter Bunny is that, AFAIK, the Easter Bunny has no negative connotations at all. Which is part of the point - since it isn’t specifically Christian, and has no other baggage attached, what kind of PC :wally would ban a display of the Easter Bunny?
Unless they had a hard-on for anything even remotely non-secular.
Regards,
Shodan
You are reaching way beyond your abilities, here. Had the HR director invoked SOCAS to refuse a an outside group permission to set up a display, we would have direct government interaction.
A teacher is an agent carrying out direct govenrnment action teaching children. An HR director interacting with an employee to establish building maintenance rules is carrying out actions that are not directly involving the government and are certainly not subject to the same SOCAS conventions. If the school secretary or janitor witnessed to kids as a part of their daily conversation, I would not consider that a violation of SOCAS and would not support an effort to silence them (provided it was personal and clearly not an action undertaken by the administration to get around the SOCAS rules as has happened a few times in the 90s).
Bingo. During Lent we don’t say the “Gloria” either (and the church is sparsely decorated). You go home sad on Good Friday and then come in to a dark church for Easter Vigil (~7 PM Holy Saturday). There is a candlelight section of readings, lots of anticipation, and then a sung Gloria (including lots of "A"s) during which the lights are brought up to reveal a flower-packed beautous church. Plenty of "A"s after that!! Ok, now I’m starting to tear up; bring it on, April 18!
Or the 15th, if I want to not miss it. :o
My wife and I were married at sunrise on Easter, 2000, on a pier over the lake. We celebrate our anniversary each Easter, rather than on the same date each year. I love Easter, and that it is supposed to mean.
We don’t do much decorating for Passover. I’ve certainly never heard of anyone putting up lamb’s blood on lintels. I suppose you could have a representation of a Seder plate and maybe wine cups in groups of four. Or, since the whole point of the Passover Seder is to get kids to ask questions about the Exodus from Egypt, we could have the chocolate question marks (if they were kosher for Passover).
I am reminded at this point of a story my mom told me about decorating Easter eggs when she was growing up. She got mad at her brother, because instead of more traditional Easter symbols, he drew a jug of moonshine on one of his eggs. He figured that was something that some people would give up for Lent… (his sense of humor hasn’t changed much to this day) I guess you could justify beer and brats that way- lots of people give up meat on at least certain days in Lent, and some people probably do give up drinking.
I missed this earlier. As I stated, Easter is one of those holidays that is celebrated both secularly and religiously. Yes, it’s a religiousholiday, but it’s also a secular holiday. I’m happily atheist, and I celebrate Easter most years; Jesus never enters those celebrations, but they’re recognizably Easter celebrations (eggs, Easter baskets, etc.)
You don’t get to put up a pentacle unless the Christians get to put up a crucifix–and then I’ll object to the both of ya. The bunny hasn’t the obliquest connection to Easter; in fact, hardcore evangelicals sometimes object to the Easter Bunny precisely because it has so little relevance to the Christian Easter story.
I don’t agree with evangelicals on many religious issues, but I’m with them on this one.
Daniel
Very cool!
Piece of advice: the moment Jews start putting blood on lintels, RUN.
No, I am right on the money, and you are desperately searching for something else to nitpick.
The HR director is refusing permission for another government employee to set up a display on government property (the lobby of the building in which the St. Paul City council meets, as it happens). Thus the government action is even more direct than would be the case for a proselytizing teacher.
Could you make up your mind? First it was only if the City Council itself got involved. Now it is only if an outside group gets involved. What’s next, only on alternate Thursdays?
So in what sense is a government employee doing a government job interacting with another government employee regarding a display on government property not government action?
This had nothing whatever to do with building maintenance. Or it would have been the janitor.
But it was the director of human rights. Do you seriously maintain that “building maintenance” comes under his purview?
I’d like to see a cite to that effect, if you don’t mind.
Regards,
Shodan
Do you really argue that any action by someone publically employed is also an action by the goverment that employs said individual? Do you really want to go there?
:cough: Abu Ghraib :cough:
For those of us who don’t hail from the Upper Midwest, I should point out that “brats” in this context is short for “bratwursts”; the “Brat Fry” events commonly seen in the warm months do not entail a gruesome punishment meted out to unruly children.
I’m not so sure.
Big sharp nasty teeth!
Look at the bones!
Run away! Run away!