While you do make a very good point, I worded my post poorly. That is “shot at most often of all jobs available” not “most often chosen by”. Also, see that if getting shot at home is a possibility, perhaps a desk job is more suited to your desires? IME, guys from craptastic neighborhoods often choose support roles instead of combat arms.
Sure. Whats the point of the contract though if everyone joins up because of ooh-rah go patriotism?
Thats why its bullshit. If people were actually compelled by some sense of pride or duty that what they are doing is right and necessary, this draconian contract would not be needed.
That is what’s bullshit. Go to a military base and start asking if the job is worth the pay and benefits, and there is no other reason to join. You’ll get the same there as from me.
Disingenuous argument: you have to have some serious education and experience for most jobs in the USA to be worth the “pay and benefits”.
Interestingly, there are many here on this board who view having the bravery and physical prowess to join the Airborne, jump out of airplanes and punch Nazis in the face as some sort of character flaw. That’s a big part of our culture these days. Skinny, pasty-face, out of shape people who don’t really do anything but watch TV or surf the net and don’t believe in anything except whatever innane pop-culture they are into making snarky comments about anyone who actually believes in something as if they are idiots.
+1
It drives me nuts.
There may indeed be such people, but I submit that this argument involves a degree of demagoguery.
I had a buddy in the Airborne. He loved it as much as I loved the Navy, not much at all. We both joined for the same reason, to get the hell out of a small town in Iowa. Its a job and an opportunity.
People do it for a variety of reasons. I’ve met a few who see it as a duty. I’ve met a few who just love the work. I’ve met a few who would have left that day if they could null their contract. I’ve met a few that didn’t care for it, but were staying in to benefit their family with a steady paycheck and solid benefits. Pretty sure the most common viewpoint I ran across was ‘Its a job’, from people just looking to do their 4 years and get the GI Bill benefits.
One of the quickest methods someone can annoy me is thanking me for my service. As if I did it for them. :rolleyes:
That’s cool and all, but do feel that you are a thug, deserving of contempt for your part in a vast system of oppression and murder? Because that’s the view taken by some of these ‘people’.
There may indeed be such ‘people’ [sic], but I submit that this argument involves a degree of demagoguery.
This response was hasty, and I apologise to YoDoc for the tone.
A bit. The old adage ‘What if we made war and nobody came?’ springs to mind. If people didn’t answer their nations call(for whatever reason) we wouldn’t have these messes in the first place. The fact that an individual has almost no power to change things may reduce ones burden, but it does not negate it.
Obviously this is unrealistic, and my general sentiment towards the military is sad resignation that its necessary. Its certainly not something to be celebrated.
On a related note, I have question about the comment made that firefighters run in when the loggers run out. Back in the day when Michigan had major forest fires they called upon civilians to help construct firelines. Is this approach no longer used?
Around here the firefighters are volunteer young males looking for a little thrill and recognition primarily. For the most part if there’s a fire they just try to contain it, they tend to avoid anything dangerous.
I’d also like to see some stats showing police have a greater chance of being intentionally killed then the average worker has. Last time I looked at any statistics, workplace violence was a leading cause of death at work.
I had more respect for the military before it became the cool thing to do and started getting shoved down my throat. It seems like more and more military and ex-military people I meet think they should get the butts kissed for doing a job they volunteered for. They are just no different than anyone else to me.
Accepted, and confused.
It’s very unrealistic, and as such, has no place in my world. Therefore, the only thing left is to cheer on your own guys. This isn’t football. If you lose the game, you die.
0.45% of Americans have served on active duty since 9/11. If it were a TV show, it would have got cancelled by the third episode. It’s not a popular thing to DO so much as a popular thing to SUPPORT doing.
And volunteer firefighters deserve more respect than any of the other groups because they do it for free. Where’s the ‘paycheck’ argument now?
So then can we assume you vehemently disagree with those who admire the allied soldiers who rough against Hitler and disagreed with Mr. Morris’ claim that those men were heroes?
In the 21st century is this how (some) people really think? In WW1 for sure people thought that way - most people were hopelessly naive, WW2 was another matter, but surely nowadays people understand what and whose interests they are really serving when they join the US military?
‘the nation’ is calling them … jesus: Just how deep is the social indoctrination in the US, is it so deep some are still blinded or does it suit them to ignore the realities of modern politics and capitalism?
Yeah, because we are SO living in a post nation-state world. Nobody should like their own country better than another. That’s just outdated. Pshh. I can’t believe we even still HAVE countries. SUCH an outmoded idea…
Well, just waded through that whole thread to get here, and I have to say I find myself just that much sadder for it.
I get the suspicion that a lot of people who have issues with people who serve in the military, and secondarily police, have problems with authority in general. As if to say anyone who might exercise power over another person is contemptible for the possibility of it’s use.
Furthermore a repeating theme seems to be that if a person is compensated they negate any claim towards honor.
I know these are likely overreactions to what I read but it is the vibe I get off this thread.
For my part, answering the original op’s question, I grant service people a moderate bump in respect when I interact with any of them until they do anything to degrade that respect. As a news photog I interact with police and firefighters regularly, and like any other profession each has many flawed players. But those are individuals, and they should be discounted as such.
Mostly I see where people are taking strong stands on beliefs when I don’t think they really understand what soldiers, police and firemen really do. Just like the knee jerk reactions I get when I say ‘I shoot news’ you have no idea of my work environment, job requirements, work history, ethics, political beliefs and motivation, but I am sure many people have an instant polarized view of who I am once I announce what I do.
Transplanting that view I feel that happening here. Sad.