I was watching the end of Harry Potter and The Chamber of Secrets and I have a question about the whole scenario that happens with Dobby being free.
It’s revealed that Tom Riddles diary belongs to Lucius Malfory who also is the rightful owner/abuser of Dobby the House Elf. At the very end of the movie Harry gives the book back to Malfoy who shoves it in Dobby’s hands; Harry says for Dobby to open the book in in the book is a sock. Dobby is happy cuz Malfoy gave him a sock so he is therefore free, however Harry then lifts his pants up and reveals it’s actually his sock. So how is Dobby still free? Malfoy didn’t give him a sock, not really…it was neither his intention to give Dobby the sock, nor was it even his sock to begin with. At no point in that transaction is anything real enough to free Dobby, so what…he got off on a technicality? Couldn’t this somehow be proven and Malfoy could sue Harry for whatever he did? How is this still legal throughout the rest of the books?
Also once Malfoy realizes that his elf is (somehow apparently) free he get’s pissed at Harry and starts saying “Avada…” before Dobby steps in and blows him back 30 or whatever feet. Since the death curse is “Avada Kadavra”…was Malfoy really gonna straight up murder Harry over this? In the middle of the castle? In broad daylight? Right outside Dumbledore’s office? What was his end game in that? You couldn’t just write it off as an accident because they can find out what you last cast in your wand so hes obviously guilty…anyone make sense of this?
I’ve always thought that ending was pretty sketchy as well. Apparently you can’t use house elves to do your laundry without freeing them, I guess? You’d think lots of house elves would get sneakily freed all the bloody time, in fact. What if Dobby puts a sock in everything he hands his master, and then his master hands one thing back? Is he free?
The sock was originally Harry’s, to do with as he chose. He chose to give it to Lucius, and he accepted it, however briefly, making it Lucius’ property. Lucius then gave it to Dobby, breaking the house-elf spell of service. The fact that Lucius didn’t know about any of this is irrelevant.
And in the book, it’s quite clear that Lucius is pissed off about this, but he does not respond by (trying to) cast the Killing Curse.
My personal theory is that the first two books were just kids’ books through and through, and kids don’t do a lot of logical reasoning, so JK just wrote whatever felt good. It always super bugged me that Lucius tried to Avada Harry then too. The third book starts to make better character and logical decisions, and the movie follows suit, but it always has a bit of fridge logic. Like if such a thing as a Time Turner exists, why does anyone get sent to jail on unjust causes? Couldn’t the judge just have used a Time Turner to see that Sirius hadn’t killed Wormtail? Or used the Time Turner to warn James and Lily not to trust Wormtail? Or just strangle Voldy when he was a baby?
Aaaanyway…spending entirely too much brain power on this.
The book did say that owners had to be careful never to hand their elves any clothing. What makes utterly no sense whatsoever was Hermione in the next book leaving hats around all over the common room. Picking up a hat off the floor is very different than having one handed to you. I suppose that we could argue that the hats were purposefully sized and created for elves, and that they were left with the intention of giving, but really, it was taking the thing too far IMHO.
I actually never caught that it was an “Avada” Lucious aimed at Harry. He’s already pretty pissed though, as Harry has just found and destroyed the diary. Lucious probably doesn’t understand that it was a horcrux, but he knows that it was extremely important and precious to LV. LV entrusted it to him, he used it stupidly, and now has been foiled by this meddling kid. On top of it all his wife is now going to be royally put out with him.
The movies usually add a few elements that are unseen in the book to make the story move a little faster.
In the books, Harry covers the Diary with his dirty, nasty sock. He hands the Diary back to Malfoy, who rips off the sock and tosses the sock away. Dobby catches the sock and is thus free. Malfoy does not attempt to curse Harry in the book either, but just lunged at him.
Think of it as a magical contract. Does the spell work on intent, or is it triggered by a specific action? If the latter, Harry’s trick works fine. It made a bit more sense in the book than on the screen, Malfoy had to accept Harry’s sock when taking the diary, making it his property. And as others have pointed out, in the book Malfoy wasn’t prepared to kill harry over it.
I agree there are quite a few plot holes in Harry Potter, concerning use of magic and the magical society. I just remind myself that they are children’s books and move on, works for me in this case as I enjoy them. In the case of time-turners and justice, they were very dangerous, as they could create a paradox, preventing their general use. When instructing Hermione and Harry, Dumbledore is very clear they must not be seen and change history. So of course, giving one to a teenage witch so she can take extra classes makes perfect sense…
Also in the books, it’s said that most House Elves don’t want to be free. Winky was freed by Barty Crouch Sr. as a punishment. The Hogwarts elves stop cleaning Griffindor’s rooms because Hermione is trying to trap them into taking clothes. So your generic House Elf would avoid accidentally accepting clothes from their owner. Dobby just hated the Malfoys and liked Harry so much that he was happy to be freed.
As for the curse, yeah, it seems ridiculous that Lucious would resort to murder (of Harry Potter himself, no less) over a house-elf.
Perhaps his intention was just to put a good scare into him: “Avada… I could easily have killed you right where you stand, boy, so watch your step!”
Sure, in theory every elf could be freed by doing the laundry… but don’t most of the elves like working for someone? Dobby was considered a real weirdo for wanting to be free. Winky was freaking out after she got, uh, socked (or whatever it was) even though her master wasn’t the most wonderful human being. There’s just something in their psyches that needs a master.
The family is their family. It’s like being kicked out by your parents. Even if you’ve been treated like a second-class citizen, you’re still attached to them. It’s only the abused who want out, and those who have never experienced abuse often look down upon them for “lack of loyalty” or somesuch thing.
bookwise hermione explains that the time turners are very strictly regulated, that there have been those that messed up their future or past self by changing history.
as far as trials go, i wondered why they just don’t use the pensieve. it would seem really easy to get the true facts from people by pulling it out of their brains and putting it into the pensieve.
I know it’s England (and magic) - but wouldn’t veritas serum or the pensieve run afoul of self-incrimination rules? And time-turners run into a go back quick, come forward slow problem - depending on how long ago the crime occured, an investigator would be giving up a lot of her life to get the facts.
Plus, in the potion/pensieve case, we know that magic can mess with people’s memories (see Mr and Mrs Granger) - so potentially of limited use anyway.
None of hold ups to too much scrutiny. ultimately.
Each solution comes with it’s own problems, and a clever crook can work around them. Like when Riddle messed with the old lady’s elf and with his Uncle’s memory. They both incriminated themselves ebcause they really didn’t know they hadn’t done it. And I don’t think memories can be forced out - look at Dumbledores’ trouble getting Slughorn’s memory. They can fog out what they don’t want to reveal, or even mis-remember if tampered with.
The one that always bothered me was Hermione making hats and socks for the house elves in the effort to free them. Regardless of whether picking something up is different from having it handed to you, Hermione didn’t own the house elves at Hogwarts. They were officially the property of the school (or maybe Dumbledore, if it had to be a person). Clearly the elves were worried about being freed (shown by Dobby picking up all the hats/socks because the other elves would no longer clean Gryffindor Tower) so apparently this worked. But it shouldn’t have, or any student at Hogwarts would be able to free an elf by giving him/her clothing.
It might be that any member of the family can free the family’s elves, and the entire student body was considered part of the Hogwarts “family”. Any student could have freed the elves, but it would never even occur to most of them, having been raised in that culture. And even among those to whom it would occur, very few would be as activist about it as Hermione.