The Eternals discussion thread. Open spoilers in OP

[FlikTheBlue]

I just got back from seeing the movie. I enjoyed it, but wouldn’t put it among the very best of the MCU. I’ll start by quoting some of the posts from the Eternals trailer thread, and giving the answers based on what I saw. I’m also adding my own questions about the second post credit scene at the end.

@silenus

A “fun” question that occurred to me while watching the trailer: Which of the Eternals got dusted by Thanos? The comics have established quite solidly that the Infinity Gauntlet can be used to imprison Celestials , for Stan’s sake! It should have zapped half the Eternals as well. I wonder if they’ll bring that up.

@naita

That depends on if the Infinity Gauntlet considered them a single group to remove half of, or part of a larger group. It removed half of all humans, and that means half of all Europeans, half of all New Yorkers, most likely half of all Spokanites, but at some point you get to towns so small that some of them will have lost all inhabitants, and some will have lost all, if the glove just picked half of humanity at random. And if it didn’t, it still has to pick some smallest subsets to take half of, or deal with some complicated adjustments to ensure taking half of every possible small subset doesn’t end up taking more than half of the total.

It seems like the Eternals are in a sense “created beings” rather than fully living. My guess is that none of them got dusted because Thanos probably didn’t include them as living creatures when he did his snap.

@Retzbu_Tox

I am annoyed that details/surprises of this movie are already being spoiled by entertainment news sites in the titles of their articles, and it doesn’t start showing until November 5. I just glanced at Google’s entertainment news, and E! is already spilling the news that celebrity-I-won’t-name is revealed in the end credits scene as playing major-new-character , who is brother to major-previous-character .

The character in question is named Eros, and the information is provided by sidekick named Pip, who appears to be a D&D style dwarf or some similar creature. I assume he was being facetious when he introduced Eros, who appears to be an Eternal that was stationed on another planet, and not a member of Thanos’s race.

Speaking of post credit scenes, the second scene featured Circe’s boyfriend, Dane, who had mentioned a complicated family history. He is shown opening a large box with a sword. One would assume, given that he is English, that the sword in question is Excalibur. The problem is that Thena was already in possession of Excalibur during the movie, so this must be some other sword. The way it’s presented makes it seem like someone who has read the comics would know what sword it is, and who he is supposed to be, but I have no idea. The voice at the end asking Dane if he was ready sounded like Samuel L. Jackson, presumably getting ready to invite him to join the Avengers, but I’m not entirely sure if that’s correct.

[Hermione1]

This should answer your questions about Dane and who the voice was. (I’m not the hard-core comics nerd my friend Alan is, so I had to look it up.)

[Superdude]

Pip is a troll. Seriously. Here’s a link to a Wikipedia-like page that details his comic history. In the movie, he was voiced by Patton Oswalt , though he’s uncredited, I believe.

[Dewey_Finn]

Saw the movie yesterday and then went to Wikipedia to find out about Kit Harrington’s character. BTW, I thought it odd that Kumail Nanjiani’s character was a Bollywood actor but the Wikipedia article said the comic book character was an action film star in Japan, so this is basically in line with that.

[Love_Rhombus]

I saw it Wed. night and look at it like this: It’s was a movie made by and referencing the “traditional” superhero movies, but it wasn’t a “Marvel” movie if that makes sense. I liked it a lot, but anyone walking in and expecting something along the lines of the Avengers is going to be sorely disappointed. I’m not sure how they could have prepared people for that difference.

I am a pretty knowledgeable comics reader (mainly Marvel) so if anyone has any questions I can try to help.

[FlikTheBlue]

@Love_Rhombus

I am a pretty knowledgeable comics reader (mainly Marvel) so if anyone has any questions I can try to help.

Does my guess on why the Eternals weren’t dusted sound about right? My guess is that for purposes of the snap, they were considered non-living.

[Love_Rhombus]

They haven’t said, but it sounds right. Not to mention they were created by the Celestials, and those suckers build stuff to last.

[Amtran727]

I saw it today and was disappointed. It just did not hold my interest throughout the film. I’m a big Marvel fan, I guess I was expecting something diffferent More on par with other Marvel movies.

[Love_Rhombus]

Looking back-why did they need so many Eternals? Ikaris for defense, Phastos for tech, and maybe Druig for mind control. Just give the people all the tech they needed. Why “guidance”? The Celestial needed a lot of intelligent life, not advanced. Let the people hump their way to the needed number. Was civilization required?

[GreedySmurf]

I would think civilization would be necessary to hit the numbers of beings needed. If the Celestial needs something like 8 billion intelligent beings to be ‘born’, I have to imagine the population growth rate of a hunter gatherer society would mean the emergence wouldn’t happen for thousands more years? Does the earth even have the physical space to support 8 billion humans in hunter gatherer (or basic agrarian) lifestyles?

[Little_Nemo]

I saw it this weekend. And on reflection, I feel this would have worked better as two movies rather than one.

First, it could have been two regular length movies instead of one long one.

Second, I feel they were introducing too many characters for a single movie to do a good job with. We had nine new Eternals plus villains and supporting characters. With that many characters, none of them got a full introduction and background. There were times when a character would show up and I’d think “Oh, yeah, I forgot about him.”

Third, I feel the narrative would have worked better if it had been split between two movies. The first movie should have introduced the Eternals, shown their history, and been centered around their fight with the Deviants.

Then a second movie could have shown the plot twists such as Arishem’s true agenda and Ikaris’ betrayal. It also would have made the deaths of Ajak and Goliath much more meaningful. Because we would have gone into the second movie with the characters seemingly established in the first movie; this would have made deaths and secrets major turning points rather than just elements of the origin story.

[FlikTheBlue]

@Little_Nemo

I saw it this weekend. And on reflection, I feel this would have worked better as two movies rather than one.

First, it could have been two regular length movies instead of one long one.

Assuming they considered that, my guess is that they decided against it due to having two big name stars in Salma Hayek and Angelina Jolie. They were probably interested in doing only one film, and likely commanded a high salary. I suppose they could have filmed it all at once and then split it into two movies, but I’ve never heard of that being something that is typically done.

[silenus]

@FlikTheBlue

I suppose they could have filmed it all at once and then split it into two movies, but I’ve never heard of that being something that is typically done.

It isn’t common, but it has been done. Most notably Three/Four Musketeers. That one ended up with a lawsuit and changes to the standard Hollywood contract. The actors were not happy.

[Half_Man_Half_Wit]

@Little_Nemo

First, it could have been two regular length movies instead of one long one.

I think that would’ve been an improvement. First movie, Victory over the Deviants, second movie, …Or is it?, with the Deviant threat apparently returning, only to then segueing into the real threat of the emergence. As it is, there just wasn’t enough development of the setting for the reversal to amount like much—we got an opening crawl, and then some Celestial counter-exposition which should’ve been a big, wait, what?-moment, but ended up more on the ‘meh’-level on the drama-scale.

Also agree with there being too many characters. The energy-blasting Bollywood star just sort of disappeared during the final act, and I didn’t even miss him, in part because Phastos just sort of took over his role by magicking up some blasters. Seemed weird for a character just announcing, I’mma sit this one out, and then actually doing so. Or did I miss something there? Was he part of the Unimind? And then he’s just back in the final scene with something about following your heart and whatnot.

Also, the whole plot thread with the Deviants evolving, and the alpha-Deviant growing more and more intelligent and purpose-driven seemed to lead up to some sort of reckoning with the Eternals’ role in the destruction of what must’ve been countless worlds, but then just sorta fell to pieces (heh). Likewise Thena’s illness: in the end, it just seems like everybody’s trusting her again, like she’s just the strange aunt who occasionally forgets how a toaster works.

And then Ikaris just up and kills himself in the end? Strange sort of resolution to that character arc. Sort of felt like they just ran out of ideas of what to do with him…

I’m also not sure how this whole thing meshes with Thanos and the snap. I gather Thanos was part of the Eternals sent to Titan; so does that mean his plan is being retconned into an attempt at stopping the emergence there? But then, Titan didn’t get blown up, it was devastated, but intact as such… Also, while I can get on board with Thanos not feeling the need to explain himself to the Avengers and just straight up telling them, yo, there’s a humongous space god growing at the heart of your and countless other planets inhabited by trillions of sentient beings who’re all going to get snuffed once population levels go critical, I don’t get why he’d feel compelled to make up this whole cover story about resource depletion. Or are we rather meant to infer that Thanos’ plan didn’t have anything to do with the Celestials, and was just a separate brand of insanity? But then, Thanos’ brother (who I vaguely remember as a somewhat icky character whose main power was basically telepathic sex mojo or something like that), clearly seemed to know about the whole thing…

[FlikTheBlue]

@Half_Man_Half_Wit

I’m also not sure how this whole thing meshes with Thanos and the snap. I gather Thanos was part of the Eternals sent to Titan; so does that mean his plan is being retconned into an attempt at stopping the emergence there? But then, Titan didn’t get blown up, it was devastated, but intact as such… Also, while I can get on board with Thanos not feeling the need to explain himself to the Avengers and just straight up telling them, yo, there’s a humongous space god growing at the heart of your and countless other planets inhabited by trillions of sentient beings who’re all going to get snuffed once population levels go critical, I don’t get why he’d feel compelled to make up this whole cover story about resource depletion. Or are we rather meant to infer that Thanos’ plan didn’t have anything to do with the Celestials, and was just a separate brand of insanity? But then, Thanos’ brother (who I vaguely remember as a somewhat icky character whose main power was basically telepathic sex mojo or something like that), clearly seemed to know about the whole thing…

Having not read the comics, my assumption is Pip was just exaggerating Eros’s resume when he was introduced. Eros and Thanos clearly don’t appear to members of the same species. My assumption, prior to the Eternals, was that Thanos was a member of the native sentient species that inhabited Titan (who happen to look like giant purple people), nothing more, nothing less. Some kind of ecological disaster due to overpopulation befell Titan, and Thanos was one of the few, perhaps even the only, survivor. He wanted other planets to avoid that fate, and so he came up with his idea of halving the population of the universe. I suppose that will probably turn out to be incorrect.

[Love_Rhombus]

@FlikTheBlue

Having not read the comics, my assumption is Pip was just exaggerating Eros’s resume when he was introduced. Eros and Thanos clearly don’t appear to members of the same species.

Comic-wise, they are in fact brothers, with Thanos being of Deviant stock and Eros (who does have weird “attraction powers” and has been sued by She-Hulk because of this) not. Not sure how that’s going to play in the movie. It’s possible Titan didn’t have a Celestial inside and Thanos knew nothing about their plans.

@Half_Man_Half_Wit

Seemed weird for a character just announcing, I’mma sit this one out, and then actually doing so. Or did I miss something there? Was he part of the Unimind? And then he’s just back in the final scene with something about following your heart and whatnot.

I rather liked that he left-he really couldn’t bring himself to follow either argument in the end, which was pretty reasonable. They did seem to forgive him pretty easily, though.

@Half_Man_Half_Wit

And then Ikaris just up and kills himself in the end? Strange sort of resolution to that character arc. Sort of felt like they just ran out of ideas of what to do with him…

Yeah, BC if he stayed around they’d have to explain why he wasn’t flying around helping people. His anguish after killing Ajak made sense, but it wasn’t as well-acted as it could have been, I’ll agree.

Splitting the movie is a good idea-I wonder if it would have flown. Reading these thoughts on the movie has made me reconsider how much I liked it, I think. It was very ambitious and didn’t quite hit all the marks.

[Half_Man_Half_Wit]

@FlikTheBlue

Having not read the comics, my assumption is Pip was just exaggerating Eros’s resume when he was introduced. Eros and Thanos clearly don’t appear to members of the same species.

Well, neither do Hulk and Hawkeye, while Thor could pass as human—so that’s perhaps not such a reliable guide. Also, the Eternals being constructed beings could essentially have any sort of appearance; and with Sprite, we’ve already seen that appearances can be misleading—although it’s not especially clear what ‘brother’ means in that context. That Thanos looks like a native Titanian would make as much sense as Earth’s Eternals looking like humans—but then, Starfox would be the odd one out.

And while Pip might’ve been talking him up, I’m not sure if claiming blood relation with the universe’s top genocidal tyrant would be such a good flex—on the contrary, seems like that’d rather be a relation to pass over silently.

@Love_Rhombus

Reading these thoughts on the movie has made me reconsider how much I liked it, I think. It was very ambitious and didn’t quite hit all the marks.

Don’t get me wrong, it was a perfectly serviceable popcorn flick with some great scenes and interesting ideas (I liked Druig’s struggle with having the power of ending all conflict, but at the cost of robbing humans of free will—although that leads to the question, if the main objective of human society was to reach a certain population, why it wasn’t his express mission to quell conflict by all means necessary—and also, his interactions with Makari), but the script seems like it would’ve needed some kicking against to see if any loose parts fall off.

[Love_Rhombus]

@Half_Man_Half_Wit

his interactions with Makari

Their whole relationship was very subtle. Were they a couple?

[FlikTheBlue]

I suppose all this means we aren’t done with Thanos yet. If he does return, I hope it’s in a prequel where we get to explore his origins rather than his being resurrected for the current group of heroes to deal with again.

[k9bfriender]

@Half_Man_Half_Wit

although it’s not especially clear what ‘brother’ means in that context.

In the context of the comics, it means twins, born of the same mother and father. Thanos was a deviant, which is the reason for his appearance. Their parents appeared more or less human.

Whether that stays cannon in the MCU is a good question, but given that he was established as Thanos’s brother, I would assume so.