First off, show me where I made excuses. Please. I make none. I merely said that while losing weight is important, not KILLING MYSELF was more important for two years. So I let the weight issue go. Working a 60-hour a week job and battling depression took everything I had for two years. You see this as an excuse. I see it as cold hard reality. What weight I am pales in comparison. And honestly, let me say this. Your calling my battle with depression an excuse not to lose weight offends me. Deeply. If you have never fought that battle to keep from killing yourself every damn day of your life, don’t you DARE tell me it would be easy to take care of my weight too, and that I’m making excuses.
Part the Second. Y’all (right or wrong) seem to think everyone here who is posting and overweight is ignorant of what that does to us. And if we would just see the light, we’d be fine. News flash. I know what being 100 pounds overweight is doing. I know I’m at risk for heart disease, stroke, high blood pressure, diabetes… (All of which run in my family, too.) I know this. We all know this. Your little “helpful” tips aren’t.
About people showing concern and love: Quick, you said:
My parents told me to lose weight. My own mother told me I would never have a boyfriend because I was fat. By your definition, this is love. Not in my book, bucko. No, my friends didn’t bring it up to me. Honestly, they were more interested in me being a cool person to hang out with, regardless of size. And later, more concerned with me getting better. If all your friends concentrate on is your SIZE, and not who you are, then I would posit that they’re not really your friends.
And johnny, I asked before, and I will ask again. You said that man is “genetically hardwired” to prefer thinner people. Cite?
Actually, I’m havin’ a good old time. But it’s johnny’s turn again.
I brought it in for two reasons: one, to bring up the basic fact that there are immutable things that cannot be changed by our wanting, and two, in case I needed to reinforce the point that losing weight isn’t equally easy, or equally difficult, for everyone. Since QuickSilver conceded that point, I didn’t need to use it the second way.
But again, you’re putting words in people’s mouths. Nobody here is looking for excuses, as Falcon has ably pointed out already. What we’re doing is recognizing reality - varying degrees of difficulty for the same task, depending on who’s performing it; conflicting demands, competing priorities.
No, nobody here is saying, “I shouldn’t bother to try to lose weight, because it’s just going to do no good”; they’re saying, “I may or may not be ready to lose weight this year. Either way, that’s my lookout, thanks; I may not even want to look at it in terms of weight, but rather, of health, of exercise, of gaining strength. Any which way, why must I be ready to lose weight right now, simply because now was when you chose to raise the issue? You folks don’t seem to have a good sense of personal boundaries with respect to this matter.” Or, as Biggirl put it, “What gives anyone the right to make personal judgements about me without even knowing me?”
And all I’m saying is that they’d bitch and moan a lot less if people would quit pestering them about their weight, and quit comparing them (inevitably unfavorably) with skinny teenage supermodels, as if weight were more important than any ten or twelve personality traits. Yeah, they say they’re serious about losing weight, alright - to get other people off their backs. Of course losing weight isn’t their true focus; dealing with the Weight Police becomes their pseudo-focus, if you will, and that makes it harder to find a genuine focus about their weight.
And the Big Mac business: I know people who almost never eat fast food, rarely have junk food around the house, eat more or less balanced meals, and still gain weight. Not every person who could stand to lose 50+ pounds has been scarfing down Twinkies as fast as they can stuff them in their faces. Gawd, you guys are condescending.
Before I sign off, I’d like to add a word about getting oneself together to face any arduous and possibly dreaded task. Sometimes it can be a rather difficult business, getting the assorted voices and forces inside one’s self on the same page, and ready to work toward the same goal. You go into such a task without inner agreement, and one part of you tries to undermine what ‘you’ think you are trying to do.
When you try to tackle such a task before you have that inner agreement, you may not get far, because of your own inner resistance. You may end up less ready to confront your problem for real than you were when you started.
This applies well to weight loss, where overweight people feel pressured to lose weight by ‘friends’, family, random strangers on the street, by the ubiquitous media images, and even by total strangers on Internet message boards (who tell them they ought to be ready to lose weight starting this week, else they’re a bunch of rejects who are looking for excuses for failure, rather than to work to achieve success). With all that going on, it’s easy to go off half-cocked without achieving any sort of inner concord; hell, it might be hard to hear the voices inside oneself over the roar of the crowd.
Well, enough of this for tonight. See y’all tomorrow, if this one’s still going.
Go ahead and use it because that’s my entire argument. Losing weight for a vast majority of people is not as physically impossible as they say it is. It’s not the same sort of physical limitation to these people as your wife’s knees or a paraplegic’s restriction to a wheelchair. I agree that there are some circumstances where a person is going to be overweight because of hormonal problems or other rare issues with their health, but those reasons are not why most people are fat. Most people are fat because their net caloric intake is positive. Period.
In the end, losing weight is simply a function of making the choice to lower one’s net caloric intake and then consistently sticking to that choice every day for the rest of one’s life.
I am not saying that you are a bad person if you cannot stick to a plan or if there are other distractions in your life that take precedence. I’m not saying that having a healthy weight should be one’s #1 priority in life. But what I am saying is that simply being unable to achieve that goal, or to stay committed to that plan, for whatever reason, does not diminish the validity of the weight loss premise.
The “big deal” is that most of these women are severely underweight. Ok, it’s not healthy to be seriously overweight. It’s not healthy to be that underweight either. In order for a woman to be 5’7" tall and fit into a 0 size dress, like many of these reed-thin actresses do, you have to go to extremes, like starvation, compulsive exercise, purging, or sometimes all of the above. This is far, FAR more detrimental to one’s health than being overweight, and the effects make themselves known much faster than the health problems that are associated with being overweight. I know from whence I speak. I am 5’10", and my weight has gone from over 200 lbs to less than 120. When I was at that supermodel weight, I started losing hair and the enamel off my teeth, and developed a heart arrhythmia.
The whole point I am trying to make is that when the media and entertainment industries hold up these unnatural bodies as being the ideal, it is NOT promoting a healthy lifestyle. All it is doing is validating eating disorders and encouraging the “well-meaning” among us that feel it is their duty to harass and harangue overweight people.
Also, which side is being nice? I think both sides are getting a bit heated. Perhaps we fat people are getting our feelings hurt, what with being called weak-willed, lazy and worthy of being filled with shame and all. I know this has made me rather sharp in my posts.
Look folks. I’m not here to debate your personal reasons about why you can or cannot lose unnecessary weight.
For the third (maybe fourth) time: The OP simply stated that unwittingly and perhaps in a bad way Hollywood is trying to portray a healthier body image and lifestyle and they are, perhaps unfairly, being taken to task for it.
What I got back in response were pages and pages of personal problems and reasons why this person or that person cannot lose weight. Fine. I’d sympathize with you but you’ve already said you don’t need my sympathies much less ANOTHER reminder of how out of shape you are.
This thread was not about why YOU cannot lose weight. It’s about whether or not media is helping influence a better/healthier lifestyle. You disagree? Fine. But why make it a personal thing? Why read veiled insults into an OP that should in no way be a threat to you?
Let me remind you that you guys are not a cross section of the obese population in the US. You are not even a good sample group. You seem to have more than your share of other problems which may or may not be at the core of your weight problems. Not every obese person is stuggling with severe depression, not every obese person works 60 hours a day. It’s statistically unlikely that a majority of overweight people are stuggling with the problems you’ve described. I’d hazzard a guess that a good portion of obese people are obese because of poor eating and exercise habits. Period.
You can claim to have countered that argument all you like but that does not make it so except in your own minds.
Now, I’ve tried to keep this on an even keel. But you guys have done everything in your power to make it all personal. All about you. All about how tough and unique your lot in life is. I must admit to having taken the bait. I do regret having fallen into that trap. For the last time folks, it’s not about you! If you don’t agree that Hollywood’s stick figures influence the public at large to at least consider changing their fitness lifestyle then fine. I can respect that. But just because you consider a thin actor or actress as a person affront to you does not make this so for millions of other people who do look at the “beautiful” people for inspiration to make positive changes in their own lives.
I’m no fawning psychophant of Hollywood stars. I know that it’s not healthy to be stick thin. I know the difference between a good example and an extreme. I believe that most audiences are equally good at distiguishing an extreme from a good example.
You say I’ve been so unfair to you. Also beligerant and condescending. Why haven’t more “thin” people come to your defense? Is it a conspiracy among the “thin” people to stand by and enjoy the alleged fat taunting going on in this thread? Remember, I’m a recovering fatso myself. I know how hard it is to fight the battle of the bulge. I know that often the rest of life gets in the way. I completely see how insurmountable a 50lb weight loss can seem. My OP simply claimed that a positive body image may be helpful to some people trying to improve their fitness and physique. That’s it. Now yes, some people may go too far with weight loss to their own detriment. Similarly, some people begin smoking and drinking in excess despite all the data that would should lead them to the contrary. You can’t save everyone from themselves and this thread was not an attempt to save your from yourselves either.
Say what you will. Act the victim if you want. I am not going to address those kinds of replies in this thread anymore. Perhaps it’s all been said already anyway and we should just agree to disagree before we really do wind up in the pit (and I ain’t going there… you guys are mean and take no prisoners…:D)
Hey, johnny, if you’re going to be reasonable, it’s going to be damned hard to find excuses to jump on your case.
However, QuickSilver is another story:
I know it’s a cliche, QuickSilver, but they can’t pull you back in unless you want to be pulled back in. Anyhow, you were saying:
Hmmm…let’s reread a bit of the OP:
And your next post:
And you wonder why some overweight people might’ve taken it personally.
I don’t know. How come more thin people haven’t jumped in on your side? Is it because they think your argument doesn’t have a leg to stand on? And by this standard, how many thin people have to be on one side or the other, anyway, to give that side a patina of legitimacy?
I mean, that’s really a stupid comment, if you think about it.
I’m sure I and others have addressed this ridiculous bit of ad hominem garbage pretty thoroughly in the past day or two.
If you want to get right down to it, you’re the one playing the victim card here. But if you believe anyone else has, in this thread, please quote them.
You said:
So is the latest Hollywood body image largely a good example or a great detriment to us and our highly impressionable kids?
I answered:
Hollywood is not helping anyone by putting up stick figures as role models.
People come in all sizes, but there seems to be only one desirable size, all else are easy targets for derision.
The OP makes a leap in logic that I find a little dangerous: Starvation diets can prolong your life. Hollywood has a new lollypop-head fashion esthetic. Hollywood is right in promoting stick figures as our role models.
I’m a big girl. I used to be big and healthy, no one gave a damn about the healthy part-- only the big. People come in all sizes. Let’s celebrate that.
You said:
While shopping for groceries, I often leaf through a copy of Women’s Fitness or Fit or some such glossy mag. I find most women featured in the articles very healthy looking. Most are not professional atheletes. At my gym, which I must frequent more often, there are many examples of fit women of all ages. There are examples, you just have to know where to look.
I said:
Being obese is not healthy. I don’t think anyone would argue with you, Quicksilver, on this point.
The OP suggests that Hollywood is doing this country a service by glamorizing the new heroin chic look. I am disagreeing with this. I say “Hollywood” because this was the word you used. I mean the whole celebrity producing, fashion model promoting, it-is-better-to-look-good-than-to-feel-good media machine that I am refering to when I say “Hollywood”.
This media machine is not promoting health. What they are promoting is quite the opposite: an unhealth beauty esthetic.
You said:
The speculation by many nutritionists and doctors is that similar gains may be realized by most humans if they simply learned to forgo that greasy hamburger, fries and sugar laden soda.
And:
My point is, if a person wants to loose weight and puts their mind to it, then they will most likely succeed at it. If you are happy with how you are, then more power to you. But it’s equally unfair to sit in a lazy boy chair and inhale ho-hos with a gallon of ice cream while blaming fashion models for society’s tendency to admire a size 6 figure in high heels (Or a 40 tall for the male model admirers).
And:
So the way I look at it, if you are not doing everything reasonable to maximize your health you are doing a dis-service to all those who love you and depend on you. All excuses to the contrary are simply …well… BULLSHIT!
And:
Come on. If we are honest for just a moment with ourselves… wouldn’t we rather see Cindy Crawfor than Rosie O’Donell in a bikini on a beach? Doesn’t Brad Pitt strike a nicer pose than David Goodman?
We all have a slightly different definition of beauty but somehow, the most common denominator (much more often than not) is a fit, tight body - be it male or female.
Face it. Chubbie may have been the height of fashion during the baroque period, but these days, those Rubinesque figures just don’t make the Playboy pages.
I said:
There is an underlying current on this thread. There seems to be this idea floating around here that since being thin is desirable both for health and cosmetic reasons, then it’s O.K. to not only promote an unhealthy esthetic, but to make sure fat people know how unattractive and unhealthy they are.
QuickSilver, the reason you got “jumped on” as you put it, is because you are couching your prejudice into concerns about health. I and everyone else who has been reading your posts can see right through it. And believe me Quick, if my fat ass really jumped on you, you’d remember it.
That was the end of my dialog with you and the start of my really angry posts with JohnnyHarvard, who had some very disparaging things to say about fat people.
Although you did comment on my comments to John (in my opinion he was saying exactly what you would like to have said, had you not been hiding behind the health issue. And you did agree with him) I did not comment to you directly again until:
You said:
I give up. In fact you’ve got me thinking… why the hell have I been abusing myself with all this diet and gym stuff for years. I’m only 20lb from my goal but what the fuck. Who needs it. I’m going to quit this nonsense and concentrate on getting my Ph.D. in … oh, I don’t know… something. I know that my body will thank me when I roll back those 40lb and then some.
and I said:
Now Quick, it was never my intention, or anyone elses, to convince people who are trying to lose weight to give it up. If you want to work hard to lose weight there is no reason for you not to. Just don’t beat up on the people who don’t.
This was how it went, non?
This is my first post to the SDMB, I’ve lurked for several months now but never felt the need to register and join in until I read this thread.
QuickSilver asked why more “thin” people weren’t coming to the defense of the side saying that Hollywood is not promoting health by promoting thinness. Well, here I am. I am just under 5’8" and I weigh 142 lbs. I hope this is thin enough to keep my viewpoint from being dismissed as easily and unfairly as those of larger posters.
I’m sure there are many women my size who are unhappy about their weight because they are still larger than Calista Flockheart, but I never felt that way. I was one of those kids who reached her full height long before she reached her full weight, so I spent a couple of years as a 115 lbs. waif. I fleshed out to about 130 lbs. by my late teens and was pretty happy with that. I was thin, which was good, but not the scrawny kid that I once was. I knew that even at my size I was too heavy to be a model or anything, but that was okay. I didn’t want to be a model. For a normal person my body was fine. Right?
Wrong. The thing about Hollywood and the cult of thinness is that it encourages ONLY thinness. It is possible to be very thin without being at all healthy. Anorexics certainly aren’t healthy. People who smoke to suppress their appetites aren’t healthy. And I wasn’t healthy either, although I hadn’t done anything dangerous to stay thin. Since I was naturally thin I’d never cared much for exercise. After all, exercise was for people who wanted to lose weight, right? I didn’t need to lose any weight, so why bother will all that hard work? This was the message I got from Hollywood, et. al., and it is not a healthy message.
When I was about 17 I finally got frustrated with my own physical weakness and decided to start working out. I signed up for the weight training class at my high school. To my shame, I soon discovered that I could barely bench press 8 lbs. There were pregnant girls in my class who could lift more than that. I eventually worked up to being able to bench press 50 lbs., and gained about 10 lbs. myself. I was much healthier than I had ever been, no thanks to Hollywood. I’m not quite that healthy now since I have developed some unrelated medical problems (which might have killed me if my body had been as weak as it was before I started working out), but I’m still in much better shape now than I was when I weighed less. I’m quite certain I could clean the floor with any of the actresses from “Friends”.
When the day comes that Hollywood begins holding up slim but muscular women as the ideal then perhaps I will agree that they are promoting good health, but as things stand they are merely encouraging thinness at any cost.
-Lamia
I am a 6’0" male who relies on running to keep my weight down to (I think) about 165 lbs. Also, most of what I eat comes from the grocery store, and very little from junk-food outlets.
If Americans excercised more and ate a balanced diet we’d be much healthier. Going on ‘diets’ is a waste of time & effort in my opinion.
Quicksilver - when I was 12 my mom told me a story about a local girl (I grew up in the ghetto of inner-city Baltimore) who had managed to pull herself out of that mess. She won a scholarship to a prestigious college (Johns Hopkins, if you know the area) and became a doctor. She can work at any hosptial in the world with her degree but she still works at the local clinic where I volunteered during high school. My mom pointed out that there are people who pull themselves out of hell and reach back to help the ones left behind, and there are those that try to pretend that those still in hell do not exist.
I thought of that when I read you OP.
Personal anecdote:
When I was 10, my parents divorced. Before that, I lived with my alcholic and drug abusing father who told me I was ugly every day (I am not, in fact I have been approached by people who say I should be a model and was even offered a modeing job once.) I turned to Oreos for comfort. I remember being 13 yo, a size 9,and still thinking I was huge. Response was to gain weight. At my highest, I was 5’5 and 200 lbs…not excessive, a size 16, but I always felt awful.
I continued to feel awful for a long time. I TRIED to diet, but I never lost weight. It was a struggle NOT to gain weight.
Then I graduated high school (c. 1999) and got an awesome job. I had great friends and aforementioned modeling comments came in. I was still overweight (190) and still self-conscious.
But finally, I started to find some self-esteem. I started to love myself (I don’t care how cheesy this sounds, it’s true). I appreciated myself for who I am, not what I look like. And I made a decision one day to LOSE WEIGHT. Just like that. And it was not easy, but I did it. I am now a size 10 and about 140 lbs. I could be this weight for the rest of my life and not care.
My point is, telling fat people they are fat doesn’t change anything. It makes them feel like shit. I needed to find some self-esteem in order to make that leap, and I did, and I am happy with my looks. I will be honest and say it feels wonderful not to have to make salespeople pull jeans down from the top row. I love being HEALTHY and running, exercising, I still hate eating veggies. I no longer give a flying fuck about how others view me, because I like my body. But I felt the same way at 190 last summer; it was just embracing this that allowed me to change. It is one less thing to stress about, but my life is otherwise exactly the same. I get the same amount of attention from guys and I still go on dates a lot. I still feel ugly and fat sometimes but now I know that it doesn’t matter.
Ok, I’ve rambled. My main point is, don’t judge every obese person you see until you have walked a mile in there shoes. Not because they are fat, but because they have their own list of struggles and issues that you will never understand having nothing to do with weight. Most people I know who are overweight are NOT SO because of their diet. It has more to do with outside stress and self-esteem.
My opinion is now and will always be, even if I gain 200 lbs tomorrow: Live life to the fullest. If you weight 300 lbs and are fine with your life, go on witcha bad self. I love ice cream and steak and cake and brownies. I would rather feel satisfied after every meal then starve myself and still not feel happy. If I lived to be 100 yo and never ate brownies or steak, I would not die happy. But if I die at 50 having enjoyed my life, that will be awesome…
And if I ever pass of you beautiful fat gals who are goddamn fucking perfect the way you are on the street, I will give you a high five and yell “Hallelujah, sister!” I know how it feels, and any kind person who has been overweight should never judge you harshly. I know I won’t!
And in reference to my story about that local girl, I did the same thing through a lot of hard work and perseverence. And I will never forget where I come from or how difficult it was to leave. Maybe everyone else could have the same compassion and decency.
Thanks, RT. I hope to see you at the Baltimore/DC dopers convention!
Well, I reread all of this and have a few more things to say:
Sorry about the typos in the last post. I was pissed.
The reason I was pissed has to do with people being careless and rude. You know who you are. I don’t care if you were being “logical” (ahem, bs, ahem) or not, personally attacking someone who shares something private (ie “I have a thyroid problem” “Who gives a fuck, lose weight, lard ass”).
quote, johnnyharvard:
I think you’re right. It’s not really a question of logic with any of these folks - it’s more excuse than argument. “I am fat. It’s because of depression/my thyroid/my job/my kids. I can’t help it so I give up and resign myself to being fat.” I get the sense that many of the folks in this thread aren’t necessarily disagreeing with you out of logic moreso than they’re disagreeing with you because they feel threatened by your premise.
I don’t feel threatened. Anybody else? Nope? That’s what I thought.
BTW, “THESE FOLKS” is kind of derogotory. How about just, “thunder thighs” or “lardasses.” I’m sure it accurately describes your POV anyway.
SOME PEOPLE ARE HAPPY BEING OVERWEIGHT. SOME PEOPLE DON’T CARE ABOUT BEING 100% HEALTHY. SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST TRYING TO LIVE THEIR LIVES AND GET THROUGH THE DAY TO DAY STUFF - BROTHERS DYING, WORK STRESS, ILLNESS, UNHAPPINESS - AND DON’T CARE ABOUT EATING A TOSSED SALAD WITH LOW-FAT DRESSING WHEN THEY REALLY WANT A TACO BELL GRANDE. THEY DON’T NEED YOU, HOLLYWOOD, SUPERMODELS, OR ANYONE ELSE SHOVING THEIR FAT IN THEIR FACE.
MUST WE KNOCK DOWN EVERYONE WHO IS DIFFERENT?
Screw Hollywood. Live your life and be happy and ignore what anyone thinks about you. If you are happy, people will like you and want to be around you - and the ones who don’t are idiots anyway. Fat’s not catching! If you reach a point when you say, “I must lose weight,” then do it, but have a Choco Taco once a week.
We’re all trying so hard to be perfect that we lose sight of what really matters. Looking like Courtney Cox is not one of them, quicksilver/johnnyharvard. I know, shocking, right? Being healthy is not my number one priority right now. It’s maintaining my 4.0 GPA so that my family can be proud of the first relative they know to go to college. Yeah, but who cares…gotta keep my waist trim, eh?
When I was overweight, I could actually go weeks not thinking about the size of my ass. I know, it seems like crazy talk, but it’s true. That is, I didn’t think about it until people rubbed it in my face, declaring out of “love” that they wanted me to get better. If that’s love, I don’t want any.
If you are so concerned with everyone being fat, why don’t you treat all the fatties to a salad? Or better yet, a dietician. Oh, that’s right, it’s not your problem, it’s lardasses over there. Riiiiight. Sounds as silly at the original OP.
In conclusion, I suggest everyone who has been overweight, is overweight, or loves someone who is overweight read “WAKE UP, I’M FAT” by Camryn Manheim. She directly addresses the Hollywood aesthetic we are debating and I believe, amongst her incomparable logic, wit, and knowledge, there is a definite “Screw you.”
Jesus H. Christ - I defend the OP and try and simply debate many of the mentally lazy claims made by people on the other side of the debate and now I’m getting accused of attacking people and judging people indiscriminately? What the hell? Look Nacho, if you’re going to jump in and revive a debate when it’s almost done and died out, then you have a responsibility to go back and read all of the posts and synthesize all of the arguments before you start spouting off.
If you will please notice, in my last post to this thread I clarified my position by saying that I don’t care whether or not other people are fat or how they choose to live their lives because 99.9999% of the time their choices do not, and will never, affect me directly or indirectly. If someone is fat, and is happy with who they are, then they have every right to live the way they want to live and it’s absolutely none of my business. BUT - if someone is fat and is constantly whining about it and making promises to change their habits, then I have every right to complain back when the whining and promising turns out to be nothing but whining and promising with little substance and call them on their empty promises.
The OP put out a premise and asked for responses. What he got in return was an attempt to turn the thread into a self-help group full of people’s excuses and justifications for being fat, contrary to whatever the OP might have been asking.
It is not that hard to get out of bed in the morning and go exercise. It is not that hard to drink water instead of soda. It is not that hard to have a veggie sandwich at lunch instead of a hanburger. It is not that hard to eat raw vegetables as a snack instead of potato chips. No one is forcing anyone to do any of this and when people fall off of the wagon and start partaking in those habits that lead to weight gain, then it’s solely their own fault if their weight increases. A crisis in one’s personal life does not require a Big Mac for dinner.
My position in this debate all along is that choosing to be fat is simply that - A CHOICE. It’s not an inevitable part of life. Most people are unable to achieve the ultra low (and I agree, unhealthy) weights that seems to be norm for women in our entertainment industry; I never said that people who do not achieve those weights are fat or undesireable. But normal, healthy weights are much closer to to those of these actresses and singers than are some of the sizes that many people were volunteering elsewhere in this thread (5’3 220lbs?!?!?). As this thread evolved, the general logic drifted away from the OP and became “I am fat, I have no control over it due to x/y/z, therefore it is unfair for anyone to point out that I am overweight.” This is ridiculous logic and is nothing more than an excuse for not doing something about a condition that is very, very easily controlled through behavior modification, contrary to what Falcon/Biggirl/Pepperlandgirl/Meara/Phouka/Tracer and/or anyone else wants to argue.
My intent was not to argue that anyone here is any less of a person because they are fat - I am not judging anyone; I am simply trying to debate certain claims that have been made about the “inevitable” nature of being overweight. My only intent was to argue against the ridiculous logic that being overweight is an inevitable part of life for most people in the condition. True, there are certain medical conditions wherein someone’s weight truly is beyond their control, but the incidence of such conditions is much lower than than the incidence of responses here that have tried to assert that claim. I have only tried all along to rebut(thanks RT) those claims.
Finally, these are the Great Debats after all. If you cannot take criticism of your posts without interpretting it as a personal attack, then I would recommend that you either make better arguments or refrain from posting.
To all those who were offended by my OP and subsequent posts, I do sincerely appologise. If I came off callous or even prejudiced in any way, please believe me that it was not my intention. I gues that being very heavy in the past and only slightly overweight now, I took liberties and made assumptions I had not right to make.
However, for the record, I still maintain that most americans are fat not because they are dealing with other serious personal problems. Most americans are fat because they don’t know how to balance diet and exercise correctly.
That is all I was trying (evidently very poorely) to say in my OP. I thought that on some far fetched Twilight Zone level, Hollywood may be performing an unintentional public service by glamourizing the Twiggy look. I may be wrong about that. What puzzles me is (I know it’s been mentioned before but it bears repeating) that violence and fantasy are also widely glamourized by hollywood and yet most viewers tend to see right through the idiocy of those types of extremes. Why do people assume that these same viewers can’t see through the extremes sported by Calista and company? There are certainly plenty of examples of actors and actresses that do not subscribe to that emaciated physique and yet manage to look physically healthy, and may I say…desireable.
