Excellent post. I agree with pretty much everything you said.
And I do think we’re highly feminized/liberalized, and this is a bad thing. Kids might get emotional damage if they’re picked last for teams and all that is just a bunch of liberal over-emotional bullshit.
We’ve become so sensitive and so PC to everything that it makes me want to puke. If you put the current generation to the test of previous generations - say, a great war of some type - you’d get a whole lot of people crying and wanting a time out.
I would say that we were not ready for war at all back in WWII. We are much more prepared today and weapons matter alot more than emotional scars.
Once traditional gender roles are of no use they will be discarded much like any other useless thing. Personally I would want to see professional soldiers fighting on the front line. People who want to embrace a stereotype would only get in the way.
I think you are right. Men should all join the army at the age of 18 and women (to be “feminine”) should just stay at home and have babies. Gender roles will all be in order and we won’t be “soft”.
As a matter of fact, I think we should even go away from liberalism too. Kids are being pampered these days. Fathers should beat their kids to make 'em tough.
Excuse me! I’m a FULLY ASSED sensitive sissy guy who definitely frowns upon embodiments of masculinity for being stupid insensitive oafs bent on the destruction of others. Nothing half-assed about me!
If it becomes necessary and important for me to engage in personal violence in order to protect my lifestyle–and attacks upon my nation are indeed a threat to that–then I am willing and able to pick up a firearm and shoot holes in people.
But take your machismo and your attitudes towards sissy sensitive guys and go impale yourself on them.
OH…and patriarchy hurls chunks. I am entirely with my feminist sisters on that. If you want to belch and fart, go ahead, no one is stopping you. But spare me the celebrations of conventional masculinity.
Which is not necessarily a bad thing, is it? We should always be extremely reluctant to send soldiers to war. I believe that if Americans perceive the cause to be just, we’ll be able to set aside our revulsion and rally behind the troops. But we should be shocked and horrified by what we see.
Isn’t there another camp that thinks America is too desensitized to violence because of the media? So are we too soft or are we too violent? I guess it depends on who you ask…
What gave you the impression that I wanted to rub salt in people’s wounds?
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Yes it is a bad thing. Looking back at the last 20 years is it any wonder terrorist haven’t been afraid to strike the United States? 241 US Marines were killed in Lebanon and we didn’t take action, the USS Cole was bombed and we didn’t take any effective action, and the WTC was bombed for the first time and we didn’t do anything about it. They didn’t think that we as a country have the guts to do what it takes to stop them. I hope that after what happened on 9/11 that America does reach down and find the guts to do what needs to be done.
I do think a lack of serious problems for many Americans has made us soft. But I am also optimistic that Americans will be able to find the resolve to get through whatever has to be done.
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We should not always be extremely reluctant to send soldiers to war. Yes we do need to make sure that we actually want to fight the war and we need to make sure we have some sort of strategy. We weren’t reluctant to declare war on Japan.
Does anyone else find it ironic that Stern – a man with long curly hair, who has appeared in drag and who talks about the inadequacy of his penis – should be lecturing people about “feminization?”
Magdalene, in my posts I am working from the Marilyn French theory of Feminism and Patriarchy as provided by AHunter3.
LaurAnge, these definitions do not define biological gender (ie all women are feminists, all males are patriarchal) but rather a mindset that members of either sex can have.
The USA is basically a feminist country at its heart. We strive for individuality and encourage everyone to do what will bring them the greatest sense of accomplishment or pleasure. This is not a bad thing. We should be kind and sensitive and understanding of others and tolerant of other’s views.
However, the patriarchal, masculine, agressive, competitive qualities that French and others of her ilk seem to disparage are the very ones that allow us to protect our freedom to live as feminists. Everything from business to the military are organized along what French calls (and denigrates) patriarchal qualities – nobility, service to a higher goal, competition, and triumph.
With the coming strife, I think the patriarchal qualities will come back into fashion. Even those who are most individual, compassionate and sensitive among us understand that there comes a time when you have to answer a call to service a higher or noble goal. That the feminist ideal of sensitivity and non-judgementalism must be replaced by the firm belief that right is right, wrong is wrong, and that furry blue things from Alpha Centauri really are furry blue things from Alpha Centauri.
Well if you define masculinity like that, I’d be a certified sissy too. Tear down your defenses because we are saying the same thing. Masculinity isn’t how much of an ass you can be (though you profess to be “fully assed”), but it is getting too easily defined as such. Look at how many flames my post brought on just because people so bent on finding something to throw a fit over are looking for something that isn’t there.
It’s so ironic that you use such threatening remarks regarding the issue of masculinity. To think of being masculine or feminine as a bad thing is to misunderstand their definitions. My post was meant to point out that the approach to raising boys is becoming more similar to the way that girls have traditionally been raised. I sbeing emotional being a sissy? Of course not, LOL. However, I think part of the problem is that all kids are being raised with little discipline (an issue for a separate thread).
To clarify the most basic point, it’s hard for a man to be masculine because of the stereotypes that make “masculine” seem like a bad word. If a man sees a need to fight, he automatically gets these labels attached to him. I think we can all see how that happens now, eh?
We’re a feminist nation at our heart? I guess that would make Locke, Rousseau, and the founding fathers such as Jefferson feminist, right? It was after all their ideals of individual liberties and the opporunity for the pursuit of whatever makes us happy that laid the foundations of our nation. If anything the idea of women being equal to men has its foundations in the writing of Locke and others like him.
Feminism is an awfully big umbrella that covers all sorts of people with different ideals. I’ve seen some feminist organizations that are closer to me on the political spectrum then they are with now. I can’t characterize all feminist as being those who strive for individuality. Not when so many of them want state sponsered child care and government programs to provide women with higher paying jobs. That doesn’t sound like individuality to me but that’s just my opinion.
To anyone who suggests that “feminization” is “soft” I suggest (only rhetorically) that you try to harm a child in the presence of their Mother. The belief that feminism inhibits the ability of our society to “win the war against terrorism” is a very misguided prejudice. Feminism equates only to people wanting equal opportunities, regardless of gender. I don’t believe that “feminization” impacts the desire to protect oneself or one’s society. It may, however, impact one’s desire to come out shooting first and ask questions later.
I believe that the “fighting violence with exposure to violence” amounts to pouring gasoline on a fire; it will have a dramatic effect on the problem, but not the desired effect. Encouraging individuals to avoid violence, when possible, discourages terrorism. I beleive that de-feminizing America may actually increase the likelihood of terrorism from within our society. Patriarchal, “manly” traits promote the suppression of people, which fits nicely with the goals of terrorists. We can promote feminism in our society without letting our guard down against terrorism. Feminism does not affect anyone’s willingness to defend themselves or their society.
Feminism is the radical notion that women are people.
“I myself have never been able to precicely define what feminism is. I only know people call me a feminist whenever I express sentaments that distigush me from a doormat or a prostitute.” Rebecca West
I assume that I’ll be called an idiot for not understanding your point, Dale, as you’ve already determined that any difficulties in understanding are others’ faults and not your own.
Nevertheless, I simply do not understand you here:
If a man “sees a need” to rape children, we place some labels on him, justifiably. If a man “sees a need” to smack his wife around, we place some well-deserved labels on him, too.
Why on Earth does an individual’s personal desires determine the correctness of his actions? I should be happy for the guy who “sees a need” to get into a bar brawl simply because his desire to bash heads is a “valid” masculine urge?
Fair enough. I’m beginning to understand that I need to make my posts longer so I can explain specifically what I’m referring to.
I was talking about the idea of our country going to war. When I said “when a man sees a need to fight,” I was talking about defending his country. This can also be applied to a man defending himself or his family (or even his values, such as freedom). The key word being “need.” No one should see a need to pick a fight in a bar (unless it’s needed for defense). This shouldn’t be confused with an idiot with a desire to fight just for the sake of fighting. However, if there is a guy like that who thinks he’s all big and bad and can’t wait to pummel anything that moves, I’d have no trouble sending him to the front lines (this was the point of my original post). The guy who has this attitude is neither valid nor masculine, but if he has such strong desire to fight, we can certainly accommodate him.
