The "Floride Test"

re: Straight Dope Fail on Fluoride - Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports - Straight Dope Message Board

I’ve been using the “Floride Test” since 2000 to determine the ignorance level of various co-workers. As a software contractor in Colorado I was speaking with a gentleman over lunch who I marked as being very conservative. Later, he cornered me near his cubical and told me all about how “They” were controlling everyone with flouride in the water. I had never heard anything about this before, believing the often told tale that floridated water helped reduce cavities and led to better dental health. Imagine my surprise at learning the truth.

And then I searched the internet and discovered that “floride is bad” is total crap, unless combined with Thimerosal, then it leads to autism (JOKING!!!).

Since then I’ve discovered the “Ear Candeling,” “Magnets,” and “dihydrogen monoxide” tests.

Back to Colorado. So, armed with things like facts and data I went to understand where, why, how the gentleman learned to believe in the “Floride is Bad” idea. He spoke of a pamphlet someone had showed him and then of all the stories on the internet. I compared his belief to that of the Flat Earth Society and forwarded the idea that things on the Internet may not be truthful, especially when there websites with opposing view points. I didn’t get very far.

Which, in reveiwing the above events, and I’m not sure what the solution is, but there are websites and people that spread unsupported theories that people believe and shape their lives. Oh the humanity.

I’ll betcha anything you’ll get more accurate results if you employ the fluoride test. :wink:

The fluoride thing has always puzzled me. It just seems so out of left field.

My mom, a far right conservative, would inform me as a kid that having fluoride in the water helped me from getting cavities. That was it.

Yeah, the whole ploy makes no sense. They want you to have cavities so you have to go to a dentist who then implants the mind control microchip in your teeth.

Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face.

That reminds me - I’m supposed to get our well water tested to see if we need added fluoridation for the baby. Must get that on my to-do list.

That’s interesting that you found an anti-fluoridation nut in Colorado. Some parts of Colorado have naturally high fluoride levels in their water, so much so that you can get mottled enamel that is called the “Colorado brown stain”. Dr. Frederick McKay’s research on this led to fluoridation of water elsewhere in the US.

My parents grew up without fluoridated water and have terrible teeth. My sister and I grew up with fluoridated water and have OK teeth. I suspect there is a connection.

Well I have been feeling sort of diluted lately…

Wow, so THAT’S where those voices have been coming from!

That dihydrogen monoxide shit will kill you dead. If you get a significant amount in your lungs, it will shut down your respiration, you’ll go cyanotic and you’ll be dead in a few minutes. It happens to thousands of people each year still that stuff isn’t illegal. What more proof of a conspiracy could you need? You can get much more information about this toxic substance here.

Crap!

I kept reading it as the Florida Test. Dyslexia, have I guess.

Wasn’t that a drive by post?

On no account will a Commie ever drink water, and not without good reason…

It’s also used in the propulsion systems of nuclear warships! And they put that stuff in your DRINKING WATER!

What’s even worse, is the young men and women in our armed forces are required to consume several gallons of the stuff when deployed overseas! Studies show that long-term withdrawal from it even results in death!:eek:

Me too. I’m moving to Florida in just a few weeks, and it’s been a hard decision to make, and I got all excited to think there was a test I could take to make sure I’m doing the right thing!

oh well…

Wear flip-flops.

I once read quite another conspiracy theory about flouride. It’s a byproduct of manufacturing, and illegal to bury anywhere. Companies pay the US government to dispose of it by labelling it a dental product and dumping it in our water.

Sounds plausible. :rolleyes:

No joke; people have died from consuming too much after a rave. About a gallon, I think. It causes hyponatremia.

The amount of stupid in the world is overwhelming. Environmental disease, people who are opposed to cell towers or WiMax in their towns, Truthers, Anti-vaxers, Morgollon’s disease, Kennedy conspiracy theories, and on and on. My latest favorite: chemtrails.

See, DanBlather, this is how we defeated Nazi Germany and Japan. The bombs were just a diversion.

Note secret chemtrail bombing continues 50 years later in Europe (6th picture). USAF, F#$^@ Yah!
The horror. . .the horror . . . et. al. :smiley:

Some years back, I tasked myself with researching this issue. I was honestly curious and wanted to form an informed opinion on the matter. Never really thought about it much until I became a parent.

I ended up spending about a year looking into it and following up on different aspects, tracking down studies and sources, and generally trying to get a well-rounded understanding of the topic.

What I found was that there are, in fact, some valid, reasonable objections to the use of fluoride, and especially to fluoridation of public water supplies.

It IS a toxic substance, and by that I mean to say that, while toxicity is relative, it ranks relatively high in a comparison of other substances we are regularly exposed to and (esp.) ingest. This stuff is not on a par with say, table salt (sodium chloride).

http://www.siue.edu/engineering/civilengineering/pdf/msds/109.pdf

“Sodium fluoride…Health Rating: 3 - Severe (Poison)…Potential Health Effects:
If inhaled or swallowed, this compound can cause fluoride poisoning. Early symptoms include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and weakness. Later effects include central nervous system effects, cardiovascular effects and death…Ingestion:Toxic! May cause salivation, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal pain. Symptoms of weakness, tremors, shallow respiration, cardopedal spasm, convulsions, and coma may follow. May cause brain and kidney damage. Affects heart and circulatory system. Death may occur from respiratory paralysis. Estimated lethal dose = 5-l0 grams.”

It is argued that the levels in municipal water supplies are so low, toxicity is not an issue. But the same dose can result in different exposure levels and effects depending on a variety of factors, including body mass, consumption levels, age, and other exposure sources. It is difficult to impossible to dose precisely via such a method.

Fluoride occurs naturally in some soils and foods (spinach and tea, for example, being high in naturally occurring fluoride) and is also widely found in canned and bottled beverages and foods (including infant formula, sodas, juices, any food containing water) prepared with fluoridated water supplies.

It is one of the most common environmental pollutants, being a byproduct of the glass, aluminum, nuclear and other industries.

Of course, it is also added in fairly high concentrations to dental products (often flavored like candy and yes, often swallowed in quantity by children) and is often given to schoolchildren in the form of tablets.

It is not only possible but fairly easy to be exposed to levels high enough to reach or exceed recommended therapeutic, safe dosages.

The most common effect of low level and/or chronic fluoride poisoning is dental fluorosis (yellow or brown discolorations of the teeth). The current warnings on fluoridated toothpastes stem from a lawsuit over a child whose teeth were permanently damaged by swallowing toothpaste, but parents should know that a regular sized tube of fluoridated toothpaste contains enough fluoride to possibly kill a toddler if consumed at one time (maybe skip the bubble-gum flavored paste and/or supervise your young children when they brush and keep the tube out of reach!)

Fluoride has known negative effects on the skeletal system, including osteoporosis and bone cancer, possible at dosages similar to those capable of mottling the teeth. Older individuals consuming fluoridated water are not getting dental benefits and may be placed at higher risk of skeletal harm.

It is capable of causing reproductive cancers, miscarriage, birth defects and cardiac and nervous system damage.

Its effects on the central nervous system have been known for decades, and it was apparently used by both the Nazis and the Soviets to “pacify” prisoners in concentration camps (albeit no doubt at higher dosages than is added to public water supplies, but given the aforementioned odds of multiple exposures far exceeding those levels, it is possible millions experience some CNS effects).

It’s a fact that sodium fluoride is a waste product of several industries, including the nuclear weapons industry. It is one of the substances classed as toxic waste which companies are responsible for disposing of safely, not just dumping. Around the time the nuclear industry was getting going, there were a few fatal accidental releases of fluoride which killed cattle and humans in areas surrounding the facilities. Fluoride began to get a bad reputation as a dangerous substance. That much is fact.

Some have proposed that fluoridation was a tactic to both dispose of toxic waste cheaply by dumping it into the public water supply AND give the chemical a face-lift with the public…making it into a GOOD, healthy thing rather than a BAD, potentially deadly poison. That, as far as I can tell, is speculation, same as the speculation that fluoridation is a method of mass medication aimed not at dental health by pacification/brain control of the public.

It’s when we get into speculating about nefarious intents and hidden agendas that the issue becomes one of conspiracy theory. One doesn’t have to buy into that angle to conclude that mass fluoridation might not be the wisest of approaches given the relative toxicity of the substance.

BTW, I just happened upon this, from last year, out of California:

http://www.dentalproductsreport.com/articles/show/dpr0709_news_fluoride

"Over protests by the lobbyists for the American Dental Association and the Personal Care Products Council who oppose further evaluation of fluoride as cancer-causing, the State’s Qualified Experts that comprise the Carcinogen Identification Committee, as advisors to California EPA’s Office of Health Hazard Assessment (OEHHA), never-the-less established fluoride and its salts as meriting the highest priority they can recommend for further review toward including fluorides on a Prop 65 list of chemicals for which warnings for risks of cancer, birth defects, and reproductive toxicity are to be publicly posted.

Citing the passage of two pre-screenings that acknowledged the existence of animal and human cancer evidence, as well as widespread exposure, this recommendation places fluoride and its salts as one of the first of 38 chemicals that also passed at least one of the tests to be newly prioritized for Hazard Identification materials preparation."

Anecdotally, I was raised drinking fluoridated water and using fluoride toothpaste. I have a mouth full of fillings and didn’t stop getting cavities until I stopped drinking/using fluoride. I also have a molar with fluoride damage (brown staining).

My kids (18 and 11) have been raised without it in their water or toothpaste. I declined the tablets the schools offered. My son has had 2 tiny cavities in his life to date (one when he was 7 in a baby tooth and 1 this last checkup) and my daughter 1 (in a baby tooth a few yrs ago that we didn’t bother filling because it was on the way to falling out anyway).

Just sayin’.

It’s not something that controls my life or that I obsess over. I don’t see it as some huge, overriding issue or anything. I don’t care what anyone else chooses to do, I just choose not to consume the stuff intentionally.

I don’t concur with the OP that my view on this issue reflects poorly on my intelligence. Hell, at least I can SPELL fluoride. :rolleyes: