CyberPundit raises a good point. Eisenstein shared with Riefenstahl not only artistic brilliance but a blinkered and contemptible opportunism. He toadied up to Stalin to get plum directing assignments while his friends and colleagues fell victim to the purges.
However, I disagree that politics is the reason they’re not equally disliked. I’m sure that most are aware that Stalin’s regime was just as evil, if not more so, than Hitler’s. Instead, I think one of the main reasons is much more mundane: while Eisenstein has been dead since the late 40’s, Riefenstahl has been pissing people off with her lies and equivocations for decades now.
That f*ing cnt made it easier for Germans to look the other way and feel good about themselves when several of my grandparents and great-grandparents were tossed into the fcking ovens.
Yes, she made some pretty pictures that are utterly worthless given the evil they enabled.
I hope the b*tch gets some horrible disease, dies slowly and in writhing agony alone and unloved, then rots in hell for the rest of eternity with the rest of her Nazi buddies.
(Hint to future artists: If you’re gonna do propaganda and be a collaborationist whore*, you better f*cking find out who/what you’re doing propaganda/whoring for.
I don’t buy the “Oh jeepers! I had no idea Hitler was naughty” bullsh*t, but even if I did, it doesn’t excuse the evil she helped perpetuate)
Well, CyberPundit compared Hitler to Stalin; does that count? I think he’s first runner-up.
And my completely ignorant opinion (never saw the movies, have only read cursory biographies of Riefenstahl) just for the sake of being slightly on-topic: it doesn’t matter one bit how well-made the films are, if they’re perpetuating evil. In a sense, describing the films as beautiful works of art that just happen to be promoting a genocidal regime is as much an act of complicity as making the films themselves.
At the same time, though, it’s probably a good thing that they were so well-made and that they are shown in film classes. (And, maybe, that the artist herself is still alive and still the center of controversy). Perpetuating the film keeps the history “alive” and gives everyone a sense of the magnitude of the Third Reich and ordinary people’s involvement in it. To go back to CyberPundit’s example, Stalin is just a vaguely evil figure on the outskirts of my United States public high school history education. But I’m very much aware of the Nazis and the Holocaust.
Let’s see. Making propaganda films to support and promote a regime that destroyed a continent, launched the worst war in human history, carrying out acts of unspeakable genocide, and caused the deaths of tens of millions. I’m thinking it’s going to take more than a few documentaries and musical comedies to get that one off your karma.
Leni’s had over fifty years since Hitler died. Maybe she should have used the time she’s spent making excuses on making amends.
She decided to stop being a Nazi after 1945? Now there’s a courageous choice. Personally, I rather extend my admiration towards Otto Skorzeny, who spend his post war years helping his fellow SS officers go into hiding and supporting various fascist regimes in South America and the Middle East. Say what you will about old Otto, he may have been murderous scum but he was no fair weather friend.
Think of a beautifully envisioned, exquisitely executed, technically brilliant painting of a 35-year-old man raping a 9-year-old girl, painted from the artists imagination. Could you appreciate the painter’s artistic ability in light of the chosen subject matter?
Say what you will about Leni–and she was most certainly a Nazi, and an unrepentant one at that, but Triumph of the Will is a work of genius. The way the camera frames the Fuhrer’s plane descending from the heavens, the happy, smiling German youth, the creepy, yet awe-inspiring Nazi rally–it makes the viewer want to run out and join the Party.
I think we’re being less than honest if we don’t give evil its due. Take Hitler–the man was a monster, an architect of genocide, there’s no denying he was thoroughly and completely evil. Does that mean we must not acknowledge his oratorical skills? He was one hell of a speechmaker–if he had been less skillful, the world might never have been afflicted by him.
In the thread Leni Riefenstahl–duped genius or Nazi bitch? I asked about her other movies and never got an answer. Maybe you can answer it for me. What other movies has she made? And which of them don’t deal with her Nazi days?
BTW, I don’t think that Hitler gave anybody the access that Leni had, unless he was sure of their loyalty. Remember, alot of people who he didn’t trust ended up dead.
Well, but Gobear, that’s part of what makes it so horrible. Riefenstahl is a talented filmmaker, and Triumph of the Will is a work of genius. It’s just a shame that she chose to use that genius for evil, the same way it’s a shame that Hitler chose to use his organizational and oratorical skills for evil. But they did, though. They had moral choices to make and they made them, and they used their talents that could have brought so much good into the world, instead to bring misery.
“I think one of the main reasons is much more mundane: while Eisenstein has been dead since the late 40’s”
Obviously that’s part of the story but even as a historical figure Einsenstein seems to be remembered for the most part positively as a pioneering director so even if he was alive I doubt he would attract the kind of personal venom which Riefenstahl seems to. Or to put it another way I doubt Riefenstahl’s reputation would be as benign as Eisenstein’s if she had died in the 40’s.
BTW all arguments about Rifenstahl aside isn’t it remarkable that an important figure of the 30’s is still alive and going strong. I wonder if there is anyone else of comparable importance from that era ,in any field, who is still alive.
Katharine Hepburn’s still alive, but 7 years younger, as great an artistic figure (often rated the greatest film actress of all time), and a much better role model. She’s about the only other person I can think of though.
“Hoodwink?” Come on. It may be possible that the secretary in the aforementioned documentary didn’t know the extent of Hitler’s hatred for the Jews or of the apparatus in place for eliminating them, but it isn’t as if the German populace was unaware of Hitler’s history, goals and intentions. The Germans were all too willing, if anything, to support Hitler’s goals of Liebensraum and the elimination of the Juden from Greater Germany.
“Liebchen, I wonder what happened to every single Jew that used to live and work here in the neighborhood?”
“Well, I know Herr Hitler wrote that entire book about his struggle and the problem of the Jews in Europe, and got elected Chancellor, and there was that whole Kristallnacht thing, and those trains headed towards Poland and Czechoslovakia . . . but it’s a mystery to me! More wurst?”
First of all, Little Nemo, she went on a self imposed exile from making films, which she’d been doing since the twenties. She’s all but a hermit now.
Secondly, as an actress and director, she made 12 films:
Tiefland (“Lowlands”) - 1954 (actress, director)
Olympia - 1938 (director)
Triumph des Willens (“Triumph of the Will”) - 1934 (director)
Sieg des Glaubens - 1933 (director)
S.O.S. Eisberg (“S.O.S. Iceberg”) - 1933 (actress)
Das Blaue Licht (“The Blue Light”) - 1932 (actress, director)
Der Weiße Rausch - Neue Wunder des Schneeschuhs (“The White Intoxication”) - 1931 (actress)
Stürme über dem Mont Blanc (“Storm Over Mont Blanc”) - 1930 (actress)
Die Weiße Hölle vom Piz Palü (“The White Hell of Pitz Palu”) - 1929 (actress)
Der Große Sprung (“The Big Jump”) - 1927 (actress)
Wege zu Kraft und Schönheit - 1926 (actress)
Der Heilige Berg (“The Holy Mountain”) - 1926 (actress)
Tragödie im Hause Habsburg (“Tragedy in the House of Hapsburg”) - 1924 (actress)
In the seventies, she became a deep sea diver, and an underwater photographer, this was in addition to her work as a documentary photographer in the Sudan.
She was a war prisoner for seven years following world war II, and also was blacklisted from Hollywood.
She claims that she had no direct involvement with Hitler but for six days conference in making Triumph of the Will. She says she DID NOT know the EXTENT of his crimes or genocidal activities, which I maintain was true of many German people, at all different levels of citizen ship.
And for the third time, I’d like to say I don’t necessarily ADMIRE Leni, except that she managed to cram a crapload of living into 100 years…but I think that when she dies, which I think will probably be soon…it would be unfortunate if her obituary said nothing but “NAZI BITCH”.
How about: “LENI REIFENSTAHL, FILMAKER, NAZI BITCH, DIES”?
She didn’t know the “extent” of Nazi crimes? Well, I’m sure she didn’t know all the stats of those murdered and enslaved. Common sense tells us she knew plenty, though. Millions upon millions were rounded up and sent away and were never heard from again, or were forced into ghettos, or had their property stolen, or were just lined up and shot in the street. Hard not to notice what was going on. But its not so much that she knew what was going on, its that she was all for it, supported it, did her part to help.
Can’t say I’ve done any research on her but from what I understand she never really reputiated what she did.
Oh, but she later became a deep sea diver and took pictures whiles globtrotting. Wup de friggin do.
How about: “LENI REIFENSTAHL, FILMAKER, NAZI BITCH, DIES”?
She didn’t know the “extent” of Nazi crimes? Well, I’m sure she didn’t know all the stats of those murdered and enslaved. Common sense tells us she knew plenty, though. Millions upon millions were rounded up and sent away and were never heard from again, or were forced into ghettos, or had their property stolen, or were just lined up and shot in the street. Hard not to notice what was going on. But its not so much that she knew what was going on, its that she was all for it, supported it, did her part to help.
Can’t say I’ve done any research on her but from what I understand she never really reputiated what she did.
Oh, but she later became a deep sea diver and took pictures whiles globtrotting. Wup de friggin do.