I don’t mean in a “OMG that film was so gay” way.
I mean I’m watching the film again the other day and it struck me that there seems to be a lot of odd overtones:
His professor who clearly has a penchant for the lads
Skull & Bones pledging seems to involve a lot of nakedness, nude mud wrestling and getting peed on
They seemed to enjoy singing show tunes a bit too much
His son was pretty effeminent
Matt Damon gives off a closeted homosexual Talented Mr Ripley vibe the entire film
John Turturro is just always creepy
Finally, he’s just a little too bitter and resentful about being married to Angelina Jolie.
I think a lot of people look back on social mores of previous times and see them as “gay.” The idea that men might hug each other or show emotion with each other is more normal in history than it is now. Also, remember that, before rock ‘n’ roll, show tunes were THE popular music of the day. Singing a song from a Broadway show would be the equivalent of playing air guitar with your buds to Van Halen today.
Having said that, a lot of all-male institutions have homoerotic overtones in their rituals. I daresay that fraternity hazing today probably has just as much nudity, etc. as shown in this movie.
True, it may just be a reflection of the social mores.
However, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility. A big emphasis was placed on being “of the right sort of people”. Jews, minorities and most Catholics were not allowed in the CIA. Edward Wilson (Damon) never seemed comfortible with any of his female relationships. Who knows?
Maybe I’m just used to CIA spies being more Jason Bourne, not Jason Boring.
That character seemed pretty excited about his relationship with the deaf girl, particularly after their reunion, but he felt that he was forced into a marriage with Jolie, who was not his type and was more of a one night stand to him. He never really loved her, but he did it because it was expected of him. Given a choice, I think he would have gone for the other girl and lived a reasonably happy life with her. It just wasn’t in the cards.
Yeah, but of course he wasn’t married to Angelina Jolie, he was married to some bint he’d had a one night stand with. interface2x pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one. I can see your other points, but I don’t think homoeroticism was meant to be a subtext.
Excellent film, btw, though I did want to shoot the son with a bazooka.
I mainly remember the film as Joe Pesci’s cameo return to movies (the doting mafia don grandpa), but the naked on the table scene was definitely homoerotic.
I think a part of it was that S&B and other such societies liked to humiliate as many of the hazing frats still do, and the vulnerability/implied threat of rape is the best way in the “Elvis villain” mindset to do that.
**Elvis villain: a term I use to mean "almost stereotypical snobbish/clannish/elitist/classist upper middle/upper class privileged trust fund Ivy League legacy fratboy types who tend to be long on entitlement and self-regard and short on imagination or insight. *
- His professor who clearly has a penchant for the lads
– possibly the movie was hinting at it, but it says nothing about the actual events involved.
*- Skull & Bones pledging seems to involve a lot of nakedness, nude mud wrestling and getting peed on
*
Not gay. That sort of stuff was not unusual for heterosexual men at the time, especially with things like fraternities. The idea was to humiliate the pledges, and there’s no better way to humiliate than to have them stand naked.
- They seemed to enjoy singing show tunes a bit too much
This comment is just plain stupid. There’s nothing gay about show tunes. Also, in the time period of the film show tunes were the popular music of the day. Everyone sang music from shows because it was what was played on the radio up until the mid-50s.
- His son was pretty effeminent
Hard to say – it may have been the character, or just your own projection.
- Matt Damon gives off a closeted homosexual Talented Mr Ripley vibe the entire film
Silly. This is you again, not the film.
- John Turturro is just always creepy
See previous remark.
*- Finally, he’s just a little too bitter and resentful about being married to Angelina Jolie.*The only reason you can be resentful of a marriage is because you’re gay? Really?
So am I the only one seeing this?
Yes. And the question is, why are you so intent on looking for signs of characters being gay?
I’m surprised no one mentioned that he sings the show tunes in drag. Of course he’s in an all-male production and singing show tunes in drag was less associated with gay people back then, but I can see why the thought occurred to the OP.
No, I know exactly what it is. But as you said it’s not at all exclusively homosexual. In the movie there wasn`t anything to suggest a sexual angle.
For instance, if the older members were ejaculating onto the naked mud wrestling pledges I’d say Ok, surely it was still an act to demean and dominate the pledges but also an inherently sexual act and pretty gay for the movie. But there’s nothing inherently sexual about peeing on people and nothing in the movie suggested it was sexual so I don`t see how it’s an example of homosexuality.
I thought that was a pretty clear message in the film - that’s why the old professor was killed, because he wasn’t “discerning” enough with his partners.
Well, because it was a man peeing on a bunch of naked man mud wrestling.
Because I’m projecting my own repressed homosexuality.
Why do people think Top Gun is gay just because a bunch of dudes play volleyball shirtless?
Does it really matter?
I’m just wondering what the point of showing scenes of cross dressing show tune singing, non-coed naked mud wrestling, nude pledging activities and implied gay professor spyman. The director chose to include these scenes for a reason.
Also, how into the deaf girl was Edward really? Even before he slept with Clover (and she had to practically man-rape him), she was saying he seemed kind of distant and unavailable. We assumed it’s because he was worried about how his Skull & Bones brothers would judge her, but maybe not.
I’m just saying that it could have been one of the things that drove Edward into such a weird and isolated career and lifestyle.
Then again, it could just be that we’re more used to seeing spies as suave womanizing playboys in films like the James Bond movies, The Recruit, Spygame and so on. Although I imagine The Good Shepherd is probably a much more accurate portrayal of what spies really are like.