No, I’m pretty sure you’re wrong
/thread
Of course there is perfectly innocent cause of death, in which millions of Jews were rounded up and numbered and placed in Fun Centers to die of typhus in alphabetical order.
And the Germans would have allowed the Red Cross to come in and help if they could have. It’s not like they incinerated all the bodies on purpose to conceal the evidence of any crimes which they may not actually have committed. It’s just that there were these bodies, see, all ready for the coroner to inspect, and they were stacked up next to the incinerator, and somebody tripped over a roller skate, and darn it all if every single one of them wasn’t accidentally destroyed. But if there had been any bodies to autopsy it would have been clear that it was typhus that got 'em. And took their fillings.
“Transfer”…“Shoot”…I suppose these are just semantic quibbles, eh.
From the Operational Situation Reports of the Einsaztgruppen:
Shooting that many people presented the Nazis with serious logistical problems; as the last quotation notes, it was making the locals nervous; and even for hardened Nazis comitting that many murders while having to actually look at their victims took a psychological toll. Hence the construction of factory-style extermination camps with gas chambers, and crematoria for the disposal of the dead. (An intermediate step was the use of mobile extermination vans, sometimes simply using the carbon monoxide from the truck’s own exhaust, routing it into the cabin into which the prisoners had been loaded.)
But all of these things (mass shootings, gas vans, full-scale extermination camps with Zyklon B-dispensing gas chambers) were simply means to an end; the end being genocide (not “transfer” or “resettlement”).
This is a classic Strange Loop (thanks to Robert Anton Wilson for the term).
Yes, I suppose it’s possible to imagine a conspiracy so vast and far-reaching that they could manufacture all the evidence pointing toward the gassing of Jews in concentration camps.
But any conspiracy capable of manufacturing all that evidence would find it trivial to manufacture the Cole video. Writing a few books denying the Holocaust would be a piece of cake for such a mammoth organization.
Someone who believes the tiny bit of evidence pointing toward a massive conspiracy must ask themselves: have they discovered the right conspiracy? Why believe the evidence pointing at the conspiracy?
Daniel
All this talk about concentration camps and I can’t get Yakety Sax out of my head.
I’m going to hell.
There certainly is a lot of bull being offered in this thread, I tell you whut.
After reading through this thread I see that Allan still hasn’t addressed where the Jews went after the war. He also hasn’t addressed the questions regarding window glass, or its relevance to the topic. H hasn’t acknowledged how deadly the gas is to humans even though it was used for 70 years in the US to execute prisoners. He hasn’t addressed the need to use a highly toxic gas to exterminate insects on clothing WHILE PEOPLE ARE WEARING THEM. In addition he neglects direct evidence that Hitler was aware of the mass murder and was given updates of it.
His evidence that it didn’t happen started with a correction from 4 million to 1.5 million dead at a concentration camp as if a better account somehow negates the death of over a million people. And his revelation that explains his motives for the thread is that he is unhappy with the existence of Israel.
Much patience and civility has been given in exchange for nothing. If Allan isn’t willing to debate then this thread should be closed.
Funny, I didn’t realize President Ahmadinejad posted here.
Dude, Henry Wirz was guilty as Cain. The worst thing you can say about his conviction is that it was “victor’s justice” – conditions were near as bad in some Union POW camps, but the officers in charge (who had not even Wirz’ excuse of inadequate food supplies available) were never brought to account.
No, IIRC, they got naked first, as anyone would before going into a shower.
BTW, interesting bit from the above Wiki link on Henry Wirz:
“Just following orders” . . . I seem to recall that argument being made in some other context . . . anybody?
I’ll admit I haven’t read every post in depth, but I wanted to add just in case it hasn’t been mentioned that most Dopers would agree with Gurfinkle on one thing: the arrest of some writers and speakers in non U.S. countries for Holocaust Denial is wrong and goes against some of the core American values. While most of them are, to say the least, less than admired or admirable in the integrity of their research, they should have the right to express super unpopular views without loss of liberty.
That said, there’s a reason that no really respected historian specializing in the area of WW2 has ever dismissed the gas chambers or the Holocaust in general (some have questioned numbers or individual accounts [such as the making of soap from bodies- that’s been largely dispelled]). It’s because there are mountains of evidence- primary, secondary, anecdotal, circumstantial, documentary, photographic, etc., that it happened, and approximately NONE that it didn’t. (As for the numbers- if it was 6 million Jews or 5,500,000 or even 3 million [which is certainly too low], does it really matter? The point is that millions of men, women, and children ranging from newborns to centenarians were systematically enslaved and intentionally murdered [and their property confiscated] due to their ethnicity.)
Michael Shermer did a really good treatment in his book WHY PEOPLE BELIEVE WEIRD THINGS. There’s a run-down here.
According to Allan they were all delousing chambers.
Douglas Hofstadter in Godel, Escher, Bach, I believe.
This is from the USHMM …
“Between 1941 and 1944, Nazi German authorities deported millions of Jews from Germany, from occupied territories, and from the countries of many of its Axis allies to ghettos and to killing centers, often called extermination camps, where they were murdered in specially developed gassing facilities.”
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005143
We’ve had a look at the ‘specially designed gassing facility’ at Auschwitz and Majdanek . How absurd can it get.
You need to understand that the USHMM statement is a grotesque, degenerate lie. These lies are commonplace in the holocaust story. These are monstrous slanders against the Nazis, and by generalization, white Christian European society. They have been used for fifty years to blackmail the world.
For fifty years the middle east has been identified as the most likely flash point for WW III. The holocaust lies have put everyone in great danger.
I always hope for a rational and reasoned discussion. I always try to avoid ‘zero content’ and ad hominem posts.
There’s been a lot of evasion and insult in this thread, and it is apparent that no one knows much about the subject, or, if they do know something, they find it more convenient to feign naivete’, and no one, save a few, want to take the subject seriously for even an instant.
I expect the Zionists to scream the loudest of course, produce the most virulent ridicule, insult, evasion, obfuscation, etc., and the posts to this thread have not been surprising. It is a matter of religious or revealed truth to them. I am dismayed by their tactics which demean themselves in my view.
Just let me add, if you are not a Zionist, simply read my posts for what they are, try to take them seriously, see if you can understand the weight of my argument before trying to dream up a harebrained objection. If you do this, and treat the subject with an open mind, you will shortly be in for a big surprise.
For the quickest wake up, see the Cole video …
“Slanders against the Nazis” are impossible. There are falsehoods, but it’s impossible to damage their reputation, and rightly so - because they’re responsible for killing tens of millions of people.
How do you account for the eyewitnesses to this period of history?
Wow. It’s like somebody opened the box on Shroedingers Racist.
You may be right, but the wiki article you linked to doesn’t give this impression.
-FrL-
The ‘eyewitness testimony’ is the best evidence of a hoax. However, you must actually look at it.
Get Muller’s book, mentioned earlier. This is THE eyewitness account. After six pages you will know that it is degenerate phantasmagoria. Really, the first six pages are ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE, so absurd its funny (trust me). I have a little discussion of it prepared titled “The Terrible Tea Service at Auschwitz” (if you read the first six pages you’ll understand the title). I will introduce a thread on the book if appropriate where we can look at it in detail.
Weisel’s book “Night” is also a good subject for discussion as more are familiar with it. You only have to read this with a 1% critical eye to know its lies. Note that Weisel didn’t mention in his entire book any gas chambers. Also, you can use the amazon search inside the book feature to see that he describes taking a shower on six separate occasions, expressly for the purpose of disinfection. NO THOUGHT OF BEING GASSED. Weisel is a great denier witness.
But, this is all evasion in this thread. This thread should be about the hoax gas chambers at Auschwitz and Majdanek.
If I cannot convince you that these ‘gas chambers’ are hoaxes, then I cannot convince you of anything. This has to be the starting point.
So, from my perspective, there is no sense discussing anything else until the hoax gas chambers are fully acknowledged and explored.
Awesome. I think you’re done then.