That is because we don’t perfectly understand unconditional love. I don’t understand why you would want to hurt someone you loved, perhaps you could explain it further.
Of course we do, given how simple it is. It’s love without any conditions attached, which makes it dysfunctional, not to mention worthless. Why would I care in the slightest if someone or something has unconditional love for me ? By definition, it’s no reflection on me.
As “love” is commonly defined, I totally agree with you.
The Seventh Seal has been opened. The Trumpets will beging sounding in thirty minutes.
Again, you’ve added an important word; want. Of course I have no wish to hurt anyone I love. Sometimes, however, that’s necessary; as much as I would like (to go back to the example earlier) to spare any kids I have as much pain as possible, i’d also very much like them to go to school, which would cause them pain. Me sending them is not through a want to cause pain, but an acceptance that it will probably cause pain in order to get a better outcome.
Another example; one of my hypothetical kids needs an operation. Again, of course I would want to spare them as much pain as possible. But if it is a serious need, I would be willing to choose for them the pain that comes after an operation in order to make sure that they are well. Similarily I have a priority, in this case their lives, that I value above them experiencing that level and amount of pain.
I think I understand now, sometimes in the process of helping others some pain must be incurred. Yes, that is the nature of being physical, but here you are not harming the individual you are helping him. When I say harm, I mean harm, pain is not always harmful. Pain is a signal something is wrong and needs attention.
Many things a doctor or dentist or chiropractic may do to a patient will cause pain, but the intent is to help, not hurt.
There is only one kind of love, unconditional love, the love that you were created by and resides within you. It is true, the word love has been defined in as many ways as the word God, because its true nature is unknown by most. Many have felt the true love in near death experiences. It takes away all fear, and replaces it with compassion, caring, and unconditional love. There is no longer any need to harm, or even get angry with others, because the fear is gone. We must work at sharing this love in order to keep it, for it can fade as quickly as it came. As humans we see dimly into the world, but when the light comes all things are bright and clear, our purpose well defined.
It seem like, as with love, your definition of harm is different from the common definition. I would say that I am both helping and harming; I am both causing pain and attempting to avoid other pain. A doctor or other may work on you and leave you overall in better shape but with a pain where they removed your appendix, or whatever. I would say that they both help and harm, with the harm being necessary in order to help.
I guess you could look at it that way, but the spiritual world does not. Intent is taken into consideration. If an individual harms someone accidentally, it is not as bad as if they do it intentionally. We all will actually feel the good and the harm we have brought to others in a life review after the death of our bodies. Dannon Brinkley writes about this in his book “Saved by the Light.” He was a covert operative for the CIA, and had a lot of negative feelings in his life review. He said he once beat up a man for mistreating a dog, and this was less negative because his intention was to help the dog. There is perfect justice, no one gets away with anything. You will receive what you give.
Ok, I have a question. Using your definitions of love and harm, your God cannot cause any harm. If you were to look at things through my definitions (hypothetically) does it make sense that I think he could? Really I suppose the question is whether it’s a matter only of semantics or of substance.
Not so. There is no one above God, and he is not subject to his own rules, as he sets them. There is no justice, perfect or not, for God.
God is His own rules and wouldn’t/couldn’t break them. God never harms anyone, never has. We are created by God and given free will. From that point we are on our own. We can learn from others, or ask for advice, but all the decisions we make, including coming into the physical world, are our own decisions.
You see, we can’t lose, we are eternal, some learn enough to graduate from the physical in a few lifetimes, others may take 100’s of lifetimes to learn enough to graduate. There is perfect justice.
You can substitute the word Love for the word God if you wish.
Nonsense. First, you’ve twisted the word “love” to the point that it’s deceptive. “Love” simply doesn’t mean what you say it does to the vast majority of people. Not because you have some special understanding, but because most people are talking about something real, an emotion, and not whatever delusional, nonsensical primal essence you are babbling about.
And there’s no evidence for any of your claims, and they make no sense anyway. You simply seem in love with the word love, and are slathering it on everything indiscriminately.
Did god create the physical conditions that lead to tsunamis and earthquakes?
You can substitute the word foobar for God, but it doesn’t make any sense. Neither does using the word love.
I think most parents feel unconditional love for their kids, but that’s about it. There is plenty of love around that is not unconditional. People fall out of love - saying that love is unconditional only implies that they were never in it.
My point is that if he did, he would not be held accountable. There’s no perfect justice for God, only that justice which he is willing to submit himself to.
I still think you’re missing a trick on the free will thing. We have free will, therefore our decisions are our responsiblity. But God has free will, therefore his decisions are his responsibility, too. I’m not claiming that God giving us free will means we have no blame at all, i’m simply saying we share it. By your own argument of “free will means responsiblity”, God *must * share the blame.
Not even parents; I doubt a parent’s love would survive being strapped to a table and tortured to death by his or her children. Yes, that’s extreme, but “unconditional” is more than extreme; it’s absolute. The problem with unconditional love or unconditional anything is that it’s quite literally crazy.
Blame for what? How could God make a mistake? I fail to see why you must find someone other than yourself to blame for your mistakes? We humans make lots of mistakes, if we didn’t we couldn’t learn what not to do, just takes longer for some.
I think you have defined it correctly. Now remember Jesus, who would not let His followers fight or hurt His murders, but forgave them the terrible deed. Now that is Love.
No, of course not.
Most everyone in the world knows the phrase God is Love, because it makes no sense to doesn’t really matter in the larger scheme of things.
You can fall out of unconditional love, I have already said so, to most people “love” is a contract. I will love you only if you will love me, etc.
How about the blame for being evil or uncaring or just incompetent ? Just looking at ourselves and the world, assuming that he existed or was even possible, he’s either uncaring about us and the world, outright malignant, or a screwup.
No, that’s being massively outnumbered. Assuming any of that happened in the first place. And forgiveness and love aren’t at all the same.
And I “defined it correctly” as crazy.
God is Love.
God is Justice.
God is Right.
sigh
If you’re going to define “God” as meaning whatever you want it to mean, lekatt, wouldn’t it just be easier to cut and past the word “God” over and over again, instead of using different words? For example:
“God God God! God, God God God, God God? God God!”
Yo, lekatt! My copy of the New Testament doesn’t have Jesus killing anyone at all. Which version are you using?