I understand now.
The past doesn’t matter.
So anything before today is gone right?
The bombs Israel has dropped in the middle of busy streets don’t count.
The assassination squads the the sent out that killed the wrong people.
pfft.
They don’t count either.
Geez people.
My only gripe is my tax dollars pay for all these deaths.
And y’all think its ok.
May God have mercy on your souls.
No sides, I’m coming into the middle of the arguement here. When I see you arguing with fine posters like FinnAgain and Dropzone I wonder wtf is going on, that’s all.
The past does matter, it simply does not matter when we’re talking about current practices.
No, anything which has transpired in the past is still very much real, but I believe we were discussing how the Palestinians target civilians.
Unfortunately the situation is very difficult.
Send in troops, and you have a Jenin style problem on your hands.
When you have to kill terrorists, missiles are your best bet.
I am, however, unfamiliar with the claim of the IDF dropping bombs in busy streets for a purpose other than hitting a terrorist. If you provide me with a cite I will provide you with condemnation of the IDF in that instance.
Again, I am unfamiliar with this. If you provide a cite, I will condemn the action. I will, however, support the policy of targeted killings of terrorists.
So your only gripe is that we pay for it?
Jeez, your moral outrage doesn’t go too deep, does it?
Leave your invisible friend out of this. 
P.S. On preview: World Eater Thank you very much.
Unfortunately the situation is very difficult.
Send in troops, and you have a Jenin style problem on your hands.
When you have to kill terrorists, missiles are your best bet.
Ahh…
Collateral damage.
To hell with civilians as long as we get the target.
I bet you just love our Iraq war.
So your only gripe is that we pay for it?
Jeez, your moral outrage doesn’t go too deep, does it?
This whole thing started out about tax dollars.
Then you and yours jumped to Israels defence.
I guess the USS Liberty means nothing to you and your ilk does it.
No, thank you for bringing some sanity to this place. There are some people that just get it, and you my friend are at the top of that list.
Reeder can get a bit crazy sometimes, but his heart is in the right place.
We all need to stick together.
Minimize civilians deaths whenever possible.
But when an organized ring of terrorists orchestrates the murder of hundreds of your civilians, and then deliberately makes its HQ in residential areas, you have limited options.
Not responding is not an option.
Sending in troops is not an option.
Unfortunately collateral damage become unavoidable.
Reeder: You should know better. I’ve posted in threads that you were in about Iraq, if you are unaware of my position, check those threads.
The situations are also not equal.
Iraq did not attack us.
Iraq was not a threat to us.
Iraq did not target our civilians.
You are saying Israel doesn’t attack civilians? Give me a break.
Do me a favor. I have to go to bed. Should have a long time ago.
But do some research for me.
Find how many Israeli civilians have died and how palestinians civilians have died.
Compare the two numbers.
Then if you think I’m still in the wrong.
Let me have it.
Be safe my friend.
I wouldn’t disrupt the Olympics and murder innocent athletes.
I wouldn’t hijack planes and murder innocent civilians.
I wouldn’t throw old men in wheelchairs off boats.
I wouldn’t steal a billion dollars.
I wouldn’t tell little children the only children solution was to kill themselves and murder people at a pizza parlor.
Fuck you for even remotely defending Mr. Arafat. Do all of us liberals a favor and become a Republican.
Aw forget I actually like some Republicans.
Fuck you for even remotely defending Mr. Arafat. Do all of us liberals a favor and become a Republican.
I hate to disappoint you…
But I’m not a democrat.
If you were familiar with my posts you’d know that though.
What does the word “target” mean to you?
No need.
Like I said, I’m aware of the facts about the region.
More Palestinians have died than Israelis.
I will also point out that the Palestinians have a policy of paying/encouraging children and civilians to take part in violent protests.
So it’s not like they don’t bear some responsibility for it.
here is a partisan cite which you probably won’t put too much stock in
But here’s one with quotes from the other side
You too.
If you need me to kick you around some more on this topic, just let me know.
Sorry I missed some of this, juggling this thread with an IM conversation, yeesh!
Jeez, I wonder how anybody ever might’ve possibly thought you were defending Arafat. I, for one, am stumped.
It started about tax dollars, then I pointed out that you had a very weird slant to your perception
And, The USS Liberty was attacked in '67.
And, to prempt you, no, I do not discard it or place no blame on Israel, I will note that it is not A) current B) relevant to the second Intifada.
Awwww shucks… ~shuffles feet~ tweren’t nuthin’
It’s actually sorta odd, I’ve agreed with Reeder on a good few of his recent posts in other threads. It’s just that he’s wrong in this instance.
One final thing as I’ve got a paper to write that’s due at noon tomorrow:
another partisan cite but with refrences to US findings on the Liberty.
Reeder, shut the hell up so we can go back to the jokes.
Wow. This thread went from really funny to really pathetic really fast.
I usually try to avoid these debates - life, after all, is much too short - but as a Doper I feel the need to correct erronious facts whenever I encounter them. It’s a burden, I know.
The Israeli military budget is $9.11 Billion.. U.S. military aid (75% of which must be spent on American-made hardware) is less than $2.4 Billion.. Closer to 25% than 90%. A lot, to be sure, but even without it Israel is currently the second most powerful military force in the Middle East (after the U.S., of course).
As for the Humvees, I’m pretty sure the armor was added on after delivery; Israel has a long history of tinkering with foreign-made hardware. And even if I’m wrong, all it means is that the U.S. military neglected to order them for its troops - I mean, it’s not as if they cost that much - which is their failing, not ours. There is not a finite number of armored Hummers to go around, you know. If there had been a shortage and the U.S. military had wanted them they would have gotten dibs.
Nuh uh. I know there are obscure toxins. I addressed this in my first post: what doesn’t exist is the perfect crime.
It’s a cost/benefit equation. Arafat was going to die soon anyway, so the benefit to poisoning him would’ve been marginal. The risk of being discovered in an attempt, whether successful or not, is that Arafat would be immortalized as a martyr.
Israel may be brutal toward the Palestinians, but the country’s government isn’t stupid.
Daniel
Is it possible that Arafat had advanced AIDS? There are several credible reports (one from the Rumanian Secret Police) that Arafat led a very active homosexual sex life. The old goat was (from several accounts) quite promiscuous.
Have the French released any detailed pathology reports?
I don’t.
p.s.
Hang in there Reeder.
Arafat was actually poisoned by the United Parcel Service.
They don’t wear those brown shirts for nuthin’.
I hate the UPS, and this is a golden opportunity to pin something on them. So don’t go correcting me with none of yer facts, Alessan.
You think? And here I thought he was FedExed.