The L.A. shooting

As we’ve all read in the news by now, some ass named Buford walked into an L.A. community center recently and opened fire, with the full intent to kill everyone in sight. Luckily, he failed miserably – but what I want to know is how?

I certainly don’t want to trivialize the horror of that event, but I’m left wondering how on earth a man out to kill can fire approximately 70 shots from an Uzi submachine gun and manage to hit only five people – none of whom were killed, or even life-threateningly injured.

Do any of you Dopers have experience shooting an automatic gun of this type (at targets, I would hope!)? Is it that hard hit what you’re aiming at?

~ Complacency is far more dangerous than outrage ~

Good question. Maybe he didn’t want to actually kill anyone? Execept he evidently did kill an unoffending mail delivery guy in a separate incident. Hummm… he was too worked up to consentrate on his shooting? He’s a bad shot? I dunno.

Firing a weapon from the hip? We’re talking about real life here, not the movies. Tho some folks do aim firearms too. Uzi’s have notoriously terrible sights too. I wouldn’t rely on any pistol (and that’s what an Uzi basically is) at ranges over 25 yards. As for snub nosed pistols, about 7 and a half yards if you’re really lucky.

Ranger Jeff
*The Idol of American Youth *

Firing a weapon such as an Uzi, MAC-10, or similiar sub-gun that fires from an open bolt is an exercise in dramatic inaccuracy. In a self-defense scenario, these weapons are referred to as “spray-and-pray” guns or “bullet hoses”. There are some valid tactical uses for these guns, but none of those uses dictate the need for deliberate, aimed, precision fire. That said, I am still surprised that a person using an imprecise weapon such as an Uzi could fire approximately 70 shots (according to the last news report I saw; keep in mind that this estimate may not be correct) and not inflict greater damage. Thank God this man was so inept!

The recoil from the first bullet pushes the
barrel of the weapon, in most cases, up. The
shooter has less than a split second to aim
the weapon again before the second bullet is
fired. It’s safe to say that 99.99% of all sh
ooters who chose this weapon don’t, or can’t,
re-aim the weapon in time. It’s like trying
to thread a needle while operating a jack
hammer. Forget it.

It is, perhaps, worth noting that the US military has eliminated the full-automatic option on it’s M-16 rifles in favor of a three-round burst option. Also note that in the Vietnam War the ratio of shots fired to casualties inflicted was estimated at 40,000 to 1.

Fortunately in this case, the mental defective in question thought he was in a movie.

Nature abhors a vacuum, which means there are a lot of people whose brains are in mortal peril.

And actually, modern automatic weapons made for warfare aren’t that great for guaranteeing a kill.

It used to be that military rifles- bolt action and semi-automatic- used large caliber bullets that would usually produce massive lethal injury if they hit you anywhere in the torso or head. Then weapons experts noted that getting a guaranteed kill was redundant; darn few soldiers will continue to fight after taking a bullet wound, and a wounded solider is actually more of burden than a dead one: he’s out of action, but needs first aid, evacuation, etc.

So most modern guns use smaller calibers (which you can carry more individual rounds anyway). It isn’t just guns either. Originally, hand grenades were the big “pineapple” type, designed to kill. Nowaday, troops are more likely to be equipped with the small round fragmentation type, which is intended mainly to produce lots of injuries.

If you decided to go out in a blaze of glory, and really wanted to be certain of killing most of the people you shot, I’d recommend a semi-automatic 12-gauge shotgun.

Wrong. It is the level of training that makes a weapon lethal. Having spent 20 years in the business, I assure you that today’s generation of assault weapons are every bit as lethal as the old bolt-action, large-caliber rifles. Slapping a selective-fire weapon on “automatic”, whether it be the M-16 series, AKM series, etc. will not insure a kill unless one is trained and familiar with the characteristics and handling of the weapon. While it’s true that the UZI and most submachineguns operate from the more inaccurate open-bolt feed, this hasn’t stopped the Israelis from using this weapon to great effect,* with * the proper training. No matter what the abilities and performance of the weapon is, * aimed * fire is still the basics of all US military and civilian police training. A single-shot, breech-loading rifle can be more deadly in the hands of a trained professional than a fully-loaded M16 in the hands of someone not trained in weapons or tactics. The “non-lethal” grenades in question, I assume you are talking about the M26-series US grenades, are just as lethal as the old John Wayne pineapples. What makes them smaller and lighter is that potent plastic explosive (C4) is used as the bursting charge. The pineapple used the casing as a fragmentation base while the M26 uses the casing and a roll of serrated steel wire inside the case for fragmentation. Believe me, there is a * lethal * radius for the M26, ask any Iraqi. There is no doctrine or training given in the US military or civilian police forces on shooting to * wound *. We did not try to wound so that the enemy would use more resources to care for their wounded. A wounded person can still fight, never underestimate the resiliency and durability of the human body especially charged up on adrenalin. I have seen people survive gunshot injuries that in your normal Hollywood movie you would think that they were history. The bottom line is that it is the training and experience that are the important factors, regardless of what type of weapon is used.

“…send lawyers, guns, and money…”

 Warren Zevon

His name was Buford?
Has anyone here realised that this means he was probably drunk at the time?
All the’Buford’s I have ever met were drunk all the time, including the ones who were only spiritually 'Buford’s --i.e. they technically carried some other name.

Let’s give our shooter a new name–how 'bout “shitbag” ?

Look, this is the guy who said he didn’t want to shoot the children, “but they got in the way.”

All of us who have ever had any kind of firearms training know what that makes him.

John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams