How does the military handle it? Like in basic training and such?
Yes. Hence the gender specific locker rooms.
So if a woman were to oggle you or your friends in the locker room, you’d strongly object to that, right?
I presume by “yes” you mean that the vast majority of men (you know, those who don’t want their bit washing watched by strange women) fears/hates women?
I can’t speak for my friends, but it would bother me. Wasn’t there a female reporter that got into some trouble a while back for trying to get interviews from players in the mens locker room? I think it was American Football.
Edit: Actually, I don’t know if it would bother me, probably not. Like I said in my first post… if I caught a man checking me out, I wouldn’t care. So I guess I wouldn’t care if a woman were to. It might some people though.
Slightly different dynamic and history between men and women, is there not? Or are we going to pretend otherwise?
You are the one that said that it was gynophobia. That’s what gynophobia means.
Here’s the thing though… as a civilized western society in the 21st century, we generally agree that discrimination based on ethnicity and/or sexual orientation and/or physical/mental disability, is not acceptable. And the net harm to society that condones discrimination based on those criteria is far greater than the net harm to those few individuals who are in favour of such discrimination. Would you agree?
I was being flyppant with my response. I should have given it more thought. My mistake.
But discrimination (as in “separate but equal” in terms of locker rooms) based on gender is okay.
It appears to be the case. It’s the social contract between men and women. One which harms no-one that I am aware of.
I would agree if there was no solution to the “problem”. Private showers seems like a good idea all around. Even for those who are just uncomfortable showering with strangers. I wouldn’t say my friends are discriminatory.
For sure. And the solution for that is to petition the club management to install such facilities where there are none. Or vote with your wallet and join the club that already offers such facilities.
What is that, exactly? Being objectified? Threatened? Assaulted?
I’ve belonged to several gyms, including SportsClub LA, which is quite pricey and fairly deluxe, and while many of them have semi-private showers (walls but no doors) or private shower stalls, I have never seen one with privacy in the locker room area. I have seen one or two people who would dry and dress themselves in the private shower stall, which is fine as long as there isn’t a backup and people waiting. I suppose people could also use the handicapped toilet stall, although woe betide you if you get caught by a handicapped person who had to wait for you before he could go to the toilet.
Really, this is about behavior. If anyone does anything they shouldn’t be doing or actually bothers you by word or deed, then you have recourse to the gym management, and I’m quite sure they will pay attention to your complaint. If your fear is that some guy will catch a glimpse of your golden goodies, then I think you’re going to have to get over that.
Any relaxation that you can achieve with nudity in the locker room will have to come from within, it won’t come from segregating “undesirables” from your presence. 'Cause that ain’t gonna happen anyway.
Roddy
Sorry I keep editing. If what your saying is… we generally agree that discrimination based on ethnicity and/or sexual orientation and/or physical/mental disability, is not acceptable. And the net harm to society that condones discrimination based on those criteria is far greater than the net harm to those few individuals who are in favour of not showering with someone who may sexualize them.
Then yes. I think we would be better off allowing homosexuals to shower with heterosexuals. If it’s something that’s going to move us backwards. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few. But to call my friends homophobes… that’s not what I think this is about. Unless you agree with Terr, and say that men are gynophobes because they don’t want women seeing them naked.
Sure. Mostly objectified.
Terr does not actually believe that, btw. S/he is making a rhetorical point. And a tired one at that, IMHO.
But look: the only real “fear” involved in having a gay or bi guy share a locker room with you is a fear of being seen as a sexual object? Of someone maybe thinking lecherous thoughts about you? I’m sorry, that makes no fucking sense to me. And yeah, I think it’s homophobic.
.
Look: At this point of my life… I would be fucking flattered to be ‘checked out’ by anyone. Some people, women and men, don’t want to be seen as a sexual object. I’m just being sympathetic to those people. Some people care about that shit, and if it happens to be men who are being objectified, by either sex… then I’ll listen to what they have to say.
Which is why I think we have seperate locker rooms for men and women… to protect us from such problems.