It is a fundamental principle in both the American and British justice systems that it is better to let 99 guilty go free than convict one innocent. I have no wish for mob rule; evidently you do.
As Giles Corey said, “More weight”.
Man, you conservatives sure are hitting the “mob rule” hard these days, aintcha? Doesn’t have to be remotely relevant, you just call opinions you disagree with “mob rule” and hey presto, that’s your counterargument.
Must make things easy–but I’m curious. Why have y’all abandoned “Posts like yours are why Trump got elected”?
Except I’m not conservative; I’m not even American.
Missed the edit window: if you’d bothered to check, I’ve been banging on about the presumption of innocence on the Dope since at least 2004.
Feel free to show me where in both the American and British justice systems that it is better to let 99 guilty go free by never having a crime even go through the legal system at all.
By not treating rape victims as the criminals, we aren’t denying any accused rapist due process but we do stop denying victims access to du process.
I am pretty sure that denying access to due process to one group to protect another isn’t in the core concepts. And nothing I even stated breaks down the presumption of innocence, but you are, because you are presuming that people who report rape are committing fraud and that they have no right to due process.
Presumption of innocence is a red herring. In general, our society fails to treat accusations of sexual assault and rape with the seriousness with which they ought to be treated, and fails to treat accusers with the kindness and decency with which they ought to be treated. Neither of those goals would conflict, in any way at all, with the concept of presumption of innocence.
You’re not American, but if you’re not conservative, you sure have been playing one on the SDMB for years now. It’s like some dude saying, “Jesus is our lord and savior and only through him can we find salvation, but don’t you call me a Christian!”
Why would I bother to check on that, when I’m mocking you for the dumb use of “mob rule” instead? Have you been banging on about that since 2004 as well?
My comeback these day is that tyranny of the masses is better than tyranny of them asses.
Homophobia is not limited to men, but it is very much a part of traditionally masculine culture (at least until very recently), and can be seen as part of it. Same with many aspects of misogyny. Is this really disputable?
I’ll add no trait is limited only to one group. That doesn’t mean that said trait can’t be characteristic of a group.
Toxic masculinity can cause homophobia and misogyny, even if that’s not the only way it can happen. Same as a heart attack can cause death even though that’s not the only way that can happen. Or, if you want, Nazism includes racism, but it’s not the only thing that includes racism.
Toxic masculinity, the idea that masculinity is defined by aggressiveness, competition, sexual conquest, etc, is obviously going to mean gay men and women are inferior.
This thread started out being quite interesting but ended up being just an interaction between old foes on clearly well stomped-out turf. This particular post I found depressing as fuck. Used to be this type of loser might find two other like minded types and hang out in a coffee shop. Now they have their own on-line community. Jesus wept. Not sure I should say “Thanks for posting”, but thanks for posting you with the face, I guess?
Posted by Quint- Soy boy, not a Chad, fan of Femoids, former Male Virgin.
PS- Sorry for the humour, but aren’t most men married for 15+ years “Incels”?
It is called “Trolling”.
Respectfully, this is precisely the sort of joke that helps promulgate toxic thinking about marriage, sex, and gender roles.
- Same Door, Different Closet: A Heterosexual Sissy’s Coming-out Party, 1992
emphasis added
I disagree, but I suppose I probably shouldn’t have posted at all in the first place.
I’ve not read the responses but want to address one of the first sentences in OP.
There are biologic differences; male and female brains are even wired differently. Let me ask a question of those most earnest about reducing the differences between the emotional behaviors of men and women:
***If there were a new wonder drug that arranged for men and women to have similar levels of testosterone and other hormones affecting personality, would you want to see that drug in widespread use?***The line between instinctive and culturally-learned behavior may be somewhat fuzzy. Culture derives in part from our innate natures.
Just in recent years there has been a backlash against abusive males; that’s a good thing. But OP suggests that there’s much further work to be done, while I wonder if we’re moving too fast in distancing human culture from its instinctual roots.
As an extreme example, consider the “Incels.” When I was growing up, plenty of us young males were involuntary celibates! But we offered each other advice and kept trying. Heck, even I — as autistic and obnoxious as I was — managed to get laid occasionally. I certainly never met anyone who wanted a sex doll!
Yet now, from what I read, young-people culture has switched dramatically. Casual sex, message-board dating or celibacy are the norms: What happened to normal courtship, or flirting in the grocery store check-out stand? In another thread I learn how wonderful self-checkout (which I’ve never seen :smack: ) is. Heaven forbid that we might have to exchange 'Good-afternoon’s with the check-out person? We need to check out quickly so we can hurry home and check our in-box for hits at ‘MetrosexualSeeksFeminist.Com’?
This post has no conclusions paragraph. Consider it stream-of-consciousness mutterings on a topic that confuses me.
Pretty sure that’s the only way to read it.
So an individual with two X chromosomes who suffers from high testosterone levels due to hirsutism, polycystic ovary syndrome, and congenital adrenal hyperplasia is no longer a women?
Why should I accept your claims that are counter to may of the current studies results?
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/10/21/1509591112.short
And how does this relate at all to my statement you quoted?
Outside of your baseless claim, can you provide any evidence that the majority or even plurality of behavior differences are biological?
And then can you map those behavior differences to social norms where men have to feel “better” than women or are “weak” if they go to the doctor or talk about feelings?
There are biologic differences, but you haven’t proven that male and female brains are even wired differently primarily or exclusively due to biology.
Congratulations on arguing against statements and conclusions which I never made or implied. Was it fun?
I wrote “There are biologic differences” and you segue to “can you provide any evidence that the majority or even plurality of behavior differences are biological?” Wow. But if you insist on debating that please define plurality. In my dictionary it means “two or more.”
The first Google hit Brain Differences Between Genders | Psychology Today lists more than two differences and doesn’t even mention the difference I thought was best-known.
I finally got around to reading that article. VERY interesting.