The remedy of giving him four more years in office?:dubious: That’s not much of a penalty.:rolleyes:
Yep, very easy for the House to impeach. Oh, and they may be able to bring more crimes out to the light of day. Trumps supporters won’t give a shit. Neither will the Senate. It MAY however give Trump a poor me card like he has been using with the Mueller report. His base DOES pay attention to that. Because they all think they are victims.
To continue, I have lost all compassion for Trump supporters. But, they are victims in a way. Victims of people like Trump and his ilk.
…its a fucking piss-poor analogy that has abso-fucking-lutely nothing to do with the questions that I posed to you. And your analogy equally applies to the scenario posed by the questions I asked. In both scenarios the pedestrian dies. We can’t say which one is more likely than the other.
Well yes you will have to elaborate on this. Because you aren’t a fucking time traveller and nobody knows what will happen as a result of impeachment.
One thing that kind of kills me is, the Dems have been in control of one house of Congress for… what? Three months? They’ve barely had time to pick their Speaker, organize their committees, ask for/subpoena records and persons, read the redacted Mueller report, arrange their priorities, and people are calling for Pelosi’s head because she hasn’t charged into the impeachment mess yesterday.
FFS, give the lady some room. I think she and her caucus have done a rather phenomenal job of getting organized and pursuing their goals in an orderly yet speedy fashion. She will impeach. She has more to worry about than if some impatient constituents don’t think it’s moving fast enough to suit them.
With the Senate voting Not Guilty, we DO fucking know that trump will remain in office. So, totally pointless, just like Bill’s, where his popularity *increased. *
What good can come of it? You know trump will not be removed, right?
…to do something different?
Impeachment is not “meaningless.”
I’m not your fucking monkey and this isn’t Great Debates. If you want to know how marginalised people thought about how Pelosi treated Omar then go talk to some of them.
I know perfectly well what impeachment means and I don’t expect it to result in removal from office.
It isn’t a political gesture. Its a legal one.
“Helping Trump” is mere speculation that has been regurgitated often enough that gullible people believe it to be factually true.
Its her job to “stop Trump.” Its her job to mitigate and limit the damage of this administration.
Stating “Pelosi can’t stop Trump” won’t do anything to stop the damage.
You guys are going to look really fucking stupid if after all of this Trump gets re-elected in 2020.
…no we don’t. We really do not know this.
LOL.
Of course I know this. I make the case for impeachment here:
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21599749#post21599749
Like what?
Unless it results in removal, it is meaningless. How did it hurt Bill?
You made the claim, apparently you can’t back it up.
Then, what?
which will do- nothing.
Yes, which she is doing, by not allowing his measures to pass the House, that is all she can do.
Yes, what will stop the damage is voting trump out.
It can happen.
and voting to indict wont do anything but help him.
Yes, that’s how the Constitution works. The House indicts, the Senate convicts, if the Senate does not convict Trump stays in office.
*The House of Representatives … shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.
—Article I, Section 2
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present. Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
—Article I, Section 3
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
—Article II, Section 4*
The President… shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
You apparently dont understand this.
Actually you make no case. You quote someone who makes a a very weak case, the case being the House can trot out the the public all the bad things trump has done. Which he will claim is fake and his core will believe, we already know this. The GOP senators dont give a shit, they will not vote to convict even given a trail of dead bodies. The GOp are the party willing to make women sex slaves and force them to have children.
…the very least you can do if you are going to respond to me is to make it clear what bits you are responding too.
I was in order, cant you read your own post?
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear
…to do something different?
…this has nothing at all with any thing I fucking said. What part of “I’m well aware that impeachment will probably not result in Trump getting kicked out of office” did you not understand?
You are apparently incorrect. I repeat over and over again in the other thread that I’m well aware of what impeachment entails.
Kendzior has made a stronger case than you have ever made for your position. She is an expert in authoritarian governments and her views are supported by many people including Elizabeth Warren and Joaquin Castro and Ted Lieu and Seth Moulton and many many others.
…this isn’t how messageboards work. I’m not going to try to match up a random “Then, what?” with which of my responses I think you were responding too.
Your question to me was about an easy to understand and common analogy. I responded and explained it as did another poster. You still don’t get it.
No the pedestrian does not die in both cases.
YES we all want him impeached by the house. BUT it could do more harm than good because the Senate WILL NOT indict. There is a VERY good chance that this will do nothing more than rile up his base and assure he wins in 2020.
You refuse to look at this side of things. But if we want to be rid of the stupid fuck, we have to look at this angle.
YES it’s FUBAR.
…here’s what you don’t get. We don’t know this. Its Schrödinger’s pedestrian. You are guessing the pedestrian dies in your scenario but I’m not so sure. You are assuming the pedestrian doesn’t die in my scenario but I don’t know why you would assume that.
This is just speculation though and you admit that. The base isn’t the problem. Rampant voter suppression, Russian interference, the team formerly known as Cambridge Analytica, State sanctioned propaganda, suspect voting machines, stacked federal courts and gerrymandering: all of these issues are much more important than a “riled up base.” A riled up base won’t ensure he wins in 2020. Focusing all of your attention on both trying to “not rile up the base” and “trying to win over the base” will do infinitely more harm in my opinion to the Dems 2020 chances than impeachment ever will.
Of course I’ve “looked at it” from that side of things. I said in the other thread that I initially believed that Pelosi’s calculus was correct. After “looking at things from another side” I changed my mind. So perhaps I’m not the one who needs to look at this from another perspective.
BB, your uninformed opinion about the constitution of a country literally on the other side of the world from you is noted, and given appropriate weight.
(Yeah yeah, “marginalised peoples”, yadda yadda. Got it.)
I’m not 100% sure it would fail. Probably 80% sure. I do believe a majority of the Senate would vote to convict, unlike with Clinton. And that would send quite a message.
But a good friend emailed me the following today: “I get the sense from Democrats that they really don’t want to impeach him. That they are happy to have him there continuing to look like a crooked buffoon.” I would say this accurately reflects my sentiments at least.
My impulse was to say “just the opposite”, but it’s not really quite that stark. Still, although I believe a President Pence would be eminently beatable, I think he would be a little tougher to defeat than Trump will be.
…are you sure you have time to post here? Aren’t you late for a Klan meeting?
Just a reminder for anyone may have lost track: this is Slacker’s opinion of some “marginalised people”:
I hope every time he opens his mouth here you remember exactly what he thinks and give his opinion the appropriate weight.
Yeah, the Klan just loves to welcome immigrants from Mexico, China, Nigeria, etc. :rolleyes:
ETA: Not to mention ex-Muslims like Sarah Haider, one of my favorite people in the entire world. Islam is a belief system, not a racial or ethnic category!
Thank you - you said it better than I have.
Moreover, it’s a split congress. She has to reckon with that as well.