Don’t know, I’m a computer guy
So how do you know that neurons aren’t also adding machines just like circuit boards…?
Because Half Man Half Wit has argued that issue. Brains are not computational.
If you propose to counter my argument then please explain what decision making component exists within a digital computer besides the adder. Where else might awareness exist?
If that is possible then I will concur. How would intelligence emerge as a property of a digital full adder?
The adder is the substrate, awareness would be an emergent property of the processes going on within the neural network.
Your question is silly - it’s like me asking you whoch specific chemical reaction drives conciousness.
No it’s not. The neural network is a software construct. It does not physically exist. Also the neural network is static. It is not in learning mode.
Not silly at all. I’m just asking that you substantiate your posts claim that awareness can be sustained by some static numbers in a semiconductor memory.
And your conciousness is a ‘wetware’ construct.
Neither does your conciousness.
That is completely irrelevant. If that’s your only objection, than ChatGPT on the website may not be aware, but ChatGPT at OpenAI HQ on a test server could be.
Your post is not helpful. My consciousness has nothing to do with your argument.
Well no. A sever is still just software. No server is large enough to support GPT learning.
In any case how does anything in the post support your position that awareness can be supported by digital computers.
One by one, I remove your neurons and replace them with a tiny self-contained circuit board containing an FPGA or something and all the digital to analog converters needed to convert the digital software running on the FPGA to the neural electrical and neurochemical activity of the replaced neuron. The software is relatively simple and just deals with outputs based on inputs.
Eventually I replace all your neurons. You are now 100% running on digital software. Have you lost consciousness? intelligence?
What if I only replaced half your neurons…
If you could successfully replace one neuron with an FPGA you’d get a Nobel Prize.
Interesting hypothetical but FPGAs don’t even come close enough to start. I’ve considered trying some basic ideas with small microprocessors that have A/D and D/A capability. A 4x4 array with an LCD color display. Might be an interesting science fair project for my great grandchildren.
Computational consciousness has not been demonstrated and I am not arguing against it’s possibility. Open field have at it.
I agree.
OK. I thought you were.
That doesn’t seem to be what you were saying earlier:
I am arguing that you won’t achieve it with present computer architectures. I’d welcome someone proposing a computational architecture that would support consciousness. That would make an interesting thread. That would be a viable counter argument to mine.
To be clear: human consciousness is not computational. That does not preclude the possibility of some system being conscious.
But your only arguments about my replace your neurons idea seemed to be difficulty and scale. There are adders involved, which seemed to be a sticking point?
I did not want to be discourteous. I have made my position clear. But, you may have an argument for emergent intelligence in an adder. I don’t believe such an argument exists, but I am eager to hear it if one does.
I’m not sure you have. You seem to be making a religious argument that there is something special about human meat, but also claim you don’t know enough about it to point to what that something special is. I’m terrible at arguing religious arguments.
My objection was that the technology does not currently exist to model neurons with FPGAs. My statement is not exactly true because a hobbyist could kluge something together that would be neuron like. But, I could also simulate a neuron with a mouse trap. I don’t see how that is relevant to the discussion of intelligence being an emergent property of adders.
My argument has been about the nature of digital computers and the fact that their simulations do not intrinsically possess the properties exhibited by brains. They are not related.
Thanks for the discussion. I must break off for mundane tasks like cleaning the cat box and doing the shopping.
I look forward to the day when my neural-network imbued android buddy can do those things for me.