The non-depressing depression thread

I’m taking up Jackmanii’s suggestion, sort of, in the other thread in GD, and am opening a thread that is intended to be really personal, and totally unscientific. No long words or abbreviations are allowed here, no medical history chat - well, not when it gets all scientific and quoting this lab and that peer-reviewed article - just anecdotes, ideas. A sort of online brainstorm. But brainstorming with a difference. Not the namby pamby stuff where everyone has to hold back from disagreeing, but neither the stupid kind where people like to sweep in with their prefabricated put-downs.

One question to consider - perhaps it might kick us off, though I’m expecting loads of “highjacks” - is Jackmanii’s point that depression is “overly considered a detrimental condition and medicated excessively (provisos above apply - absolutely no medico-chat) since numerous gifted and famous people have suffered from it and that depression may actually have fostered their accomplishments”.

All welcome - especially those few dopers who DON’T seem to suffer from depression. How do you cope?

This is an extremely unclear OP. What are you asking please?

Well, normally I’d make a post about melancholy and creative juices and stuff, but it’s late and I’m writing a paper, so I’ll just say that soul-crushing depression is rightly considered bad.

If Jackmanii’s point is anywhere close to what it looks like, ie that depression shouldn’t be treated because it’s not detrimental and may increase accomplishments, then he’s… checks if we’re in the Pit… dangit… wrong.

I’m not sure what the OP’s asking, either, but let’s take a look at me a week ago - before I started antidepressants (Lexapro) - and me now.

Me then: Wanted to sleep all the time. My whole schedule, in fact, was built around how soon I could get back to bed. Snappish with the kids. Why clean the house/wash dishes/do laundry? It never ended, and I’d just have to do it again. Bitchy with the husband. Nights spent at work swearing at anybody and everybody who called me on the phone or radio (not when I was keyed up or actually on the phone, obviously. More like, “29 to dispatch.” What the fuck do you want now? “29, go ahead.”) No energy, no patience, and damn few laughs.

Me now: Well, it’s only been a week. But already I’ve noticed I have more energy, I feel more rested after I have slept, I have more patience, I’ve stopped snapping at the kids and husband, I’ve cleaned my house (I even put some bellydance music on and shimmied while I was doing it, and I haven’t felt motivated to dance since the beginning of the year), and while I still cuss at my radio at work, it’s more from habit (and seeing what kinds of creative names and witty comments I can come up with) than from actual irritation.

What pushed me to get some help? I started trying to think of ways I could crash my car into a tree, yet not hurt myself too bad; just bad enough so I wouldn’t have to go to work. I’d be sitting staring lifelessly at the TV and start daydreaming about slitting my wrists; not fatally, just for something to do, for release. This, I thought, is completely nuts.

I’m on a low-level dosage, but it seems to be helping me a lot. Could I cope without the meds? Oh, probably - I’d been coping for almost a year - but I seem to be a much calmer and more productive person with them.

This couldn’t be more perfect timing. Bless your heart for posting! I’ve been on Paxil for almost 6 years, and while I no longer have panic attacks, I don’t really care about anything. Housework? Paying bills? All of the activities that I used to enjoy? Whoosh… who cares? I spend most of my time on the computer, sleeping, and watching TV. I sleep during the day and am on the computer at night. It’s so aimless - and that’s how I feel.

Anyhow, I finally went to see my doctor Tuesday, and am starting to taper off of Paxil and then will start taking Lexapro. I’m really glad you posted.

I’m nervous, but hopeful.

Are there any side effects you’ve noticed from taking Lexapro? I’m eager to get back out into the working world and make some actual money. I owned a toy store, but sold it this past May and am lonely at home. The thing is, I hardly have the motivation to take a shower right now.

I used to have a business, and was busy and happy there.

I used to have two little dogs that were precious to me. One died in April and the other is going downhill. Her care is challenging right now.

We’re having financial troubles right now.

Other than that, it’s all good. :wink:

The treatment of depression is individual, complex and debatable. Is your depression unipolar, i.e. darker moods, despair, low energy? Or is it mixed with anger and anxiety, as is mine? Each case is treatable, depending on what you consider to be the acceptability of side effects of the meds. IMHO, the patient who seeks out treatment is responsible for their own education prior to beginning a medication. There are so many great sites on the internet for researching each treatment modality. Do your homework, before you meet with your doctor.

As for depression and creativity, yes I do believe there is a strong link. However, in many cases it could be related to the mania that is often paired with depression. I don’t have the address, but there is a site listing famous people who have been treated for this type of disorder. It is informative and eye-opening
to see how many truly creative people have had to struggle and fight this battle.

Don’t know if I answered any questions here, just waxing philisophical this AM…

I am not sure what you are looking for but I use to be Manic-depressive or Bi-polar or I had major mood Swings. I am still moody but nothing like what I was from ages 14-22.
I especially hit lows in the Navy were Suicide seemed very attractive.
**Now on the positive side. **
The Manic or Hyper periods I used to experience were amazing. I wish I could operate on that level safely all the time. I was on an Aircraft Carrier on a 6 month Sea Duty period. We were actually at sea for 110 days, a record at that point. I hit a sustained up for about 3 weeks that I supplemented with lots of caffeine.
I was simultaneously qualifying for Load Dispatcher, the highest watch Qual. for an Electrician Mate. I was leading a ship wide Chess tournament. We had a pool of 5000 men and about 200 participants. I was running a 12 person D&D Campaign nightly. I took a 3 month backlog of repairing portable equipment in the Safety shop and completely caught us up. I was of course standing 4 hour watches every day. I actually slept for about 3 hours a night.

I cannot conceive of this level of both Physical & Mental activity being accomplished by me again. As great as this was however, my Lows were truly painful and I will take my much smaller mood swings over the huge arcs I use to be subjected to.

BTW: I was never on any medication; my cure was self awareness of impending mood swing and actively working to stave it off. As the years went by, I don’t have to work at it anymore.

Jim

Obviously I can’t speak for all of us, but my immediate thought upon reading this was “how do you not cope?” As far as I know, the kind of depression that can be helped by medication is the result of a chemical imbalance … I have as much control over not being depressed as you have over being depressed.

On the 2nd of August of this year, I hospitalized myself. I was seriously considering jumping off the roof of my office building and that took up most of the day, every day. My weekends vanished into a grey fog. I functioned on a day to day basis, but that was it. I finally decided that I needed help when I looked down one day and had carved up my right arm, wrist to elbow, with a variety of designs that I thought looked “cool.” Then I realized what I had done and that I was not in a good place and I didn’t think I wanted to be in that place anymore.

I was hospitalized for a week, and then spent 6 more weeks in a partial hospitalization program. I hated psych meds with a passion. None of them worked for me, or they worked for a while and then stopped. I’d been on tri-cyclics (good-bye personality, hello zombie!) and SSRIs (Prozac sent me back into the hospital, Effexor and Celexa blunted me) and I was done with them. No more. But here I was, in the hospital again. I agreed to try meds one more time because I was desperate. They started me on Cymbalta and Risperdal. No more spacing out and hours, days or weeks disappearing into the fog. After about a month, I would occasionally feel good. Now I feel good: contented, calm, safe, most of the time. I still have bad days, but their impact is lessened.

I’ve returned to work, to a changed schedule and responsibilities. I’ve been told that I look alive again, that I sparkle, and that the cloud of darkness that surrounded me before seems to be gone. Even my cats have noticed the difference. Best of all, I can write again. I hadn’t written fiction in years, but I wrote my first couple of pages in the hospital and haven’t stopped since. I’m more creative in general, coming up with new recipes all the time. I’ve also taken up knitting, something I didn’t have the concentration for before.

Meds, combined with psychotherapy, turned me around 180 degrees. I don’t believe I’ll be on them forever and I don’t discount the placebo effect, but they got me to the point that life was worth living again and that alone is worth everything.

The OP is unclear.

I have suffered from depression. However due to cognitive and biochemical changes have kept it largely under wraps for the last year and a half. For the last month I have noticed I’ve become irritable and very depressed though. Nothing seemed to help. Then I remembered that allergies can trigger depression and once I started histamine blockers my mood has become elevated again. Its sad that there are so many causes of depression. The idea that depression is due to low serotonin and an SSRI will cure it is grossly simplistic. Depression is probably just a general ‘something is wrong’ alarm the mind gives off for an endless number of problems.

When I have depression I usually look for a cure. Either some behavior change (more optimism, more exercise, Tai Chi or yoga, more social ties) or some biochemical change (screwing with my norepinephrine/serotonin/dopamine levels, B vitamins, methyl donors, etc) or changing my diet or whatever I can find that works. The best books on the subject of behavioral and biochemical changes that may work are:

Depression-Free for Life

Dealing with Depression Naturally

Authentic Happiness

I don’t think depression is ‘over medicated’. I would rather be happy (or at least not miserable) and a crappy poet/songwriter than miserable and a good songwriter. And just because there is a tie between creativity and mood disorders doesn’t mean you need a mood disorder to be creative.

I get a little defensive & pissy when anyone implies that it might be inappropriate in any way for me to be on antidepressant meds. I remember having my first suicidal depression when I was 12. Parents didn’t do a damn thing about it. By the time I was prescribed meds (at age 30), I’d been through enough major depressive episodes that it took very little to set off the next one. Google the term “kindling” re: depression. If the theory is true, then I’m destined to be on the meds for life (I’ve already been told so by my docs).

I thought I was doing ok on Serzone, but my insurance decided they would remove it from their formulary, so I was switched to Effexor. I’m a little annoyed about the slight weight gain & the plummet in my already-low libido, but I’ve noticed that my mood really has been better since switching, and my immunity to illness has improved, to boot.

I’ve also learned a bit about myself & how to cope through therapy, though it’s been a while since I’ve gone. I’d be even better off if I’d get my lazy ass to the gym a few times a week. Maybe ski season will get me motivated…

In 2001 I finally got real medical treatment for depression that had been with me for decades. What got me to do so was that it had gotten to the point where I was having such anxiety as well that it was difficult for me to go for a full day of work without having to go into the bathroom and cry. I was afraid ALL the time. One day when I came home I sat in the dark and cried for 3 hours. Over nothing.

I knew I was depressed, and had been trying all kinds of things – vitamins, iron, St. John’s wort. The latter had some effect, but not enough. I went to my doctor after the 3-hour anxiety attack, and she had me first stop the SJW, then start up with a small dose of Paxil, then increase to a larger dose. I had to check back with her weekly to discuss any effects or side effects, and go in to see her in a month. At that time, she asked me how I felt, and I was for the first time in decades able to say an honest “Great!” She said she thought so, that she could see a difference right away.

I don’t feel loopy, or pepped-up, or lethargic, or any of that stuff. It’s just the grey veil that used to be over everything is gone. All of the coping mechinisms for dealing with stressful situations now work. I can look at something beautiful and think, “Wow! That’s really nice!” and actually feel that, instead of an objective assessment that it is the kind of thing that might be expected to be thought pleasant.

Over the last 4 years I have also had a rather large number of stressful things to deal with, and have often felt that had this been pre-Paxil I would have – well, I don’t like to think about that. I have also been able to take control over certain things that were previously too depressing to deal with. The only regret I have is that I can’t drink any more. One martini and I’m dizzy and loopy. Two or more and I’d be on my butt. I found while on vacation that having just one drink every day for 3 days, the Paxil seems to stop working and I start feeling like I’m oozing back into that black pit again.

You can tell I am a strong believer in the idea that some “mental illnesses” are actually neurological disorders and are related to some sort of inborn brain chemistry in a lot of sufferers. I’m basing this not only on my own experience, but on that of other women in my family. My sister definitely has a depression problem, but I don’t know too many details because she does not like to discuss it, which is certainly her right. We have surmised, however, that our mother had similar problems, based on things we remember. Like the week or so when we were quite young when for an undisclosed reason we suddenly had to go stay with our grandmother. This was after a particularly stressful time in our parents’ life (my dad had nearly been killed in a car accident, in a coma for weeks, then got hepatitis in the hospital from a dirty needle).

Also, my daughter is a diagnosed bipolar sufferer. The work of striving to get balance on the meds is a neverending task. Interestingly, my sister’s daughter seems to have completely avoided the syndrome, which is excellent, since she has also had to struggle with a large number of personal problems.

I also don’t get the OP, but my two cents for what they’re worth:

I suffer on a regular basis from feelings of low self-esteem and generalized anxiety/panic attacks.

The way to cure it? I read a good book, hang out with my friends, cuddle my pet, get in a good belly laugh or two. Just live and do the things that makes life worth living, you know?

But for me, it’s never really been serious. I’ve always been able to cope, one way or another. It helps that I have an unfailingly sunny disposition (which, believe me, is a source of strength) but I can’t really relate to having a permanent and crippling disorder.

So I dunno if my advice helps.

See, that’s the difference. Suppose you read a couple good books, hung out with your friends, had a good laugh, then went home and cried your eyes out. Or worse. Or that you had great difficulty making and keeping friends because few people could tolerate your mood swings. I’m honestly very, very glad for you that you have an unfailingly sunny disposition. I’m also envious.

I’m quite sure that every living human being, unless he/she is insane, occasionally has feelings of sadness, low self esteem, and/or anxiety. Heck, it’s necessary that we feel sad when things are wrong, else we’d never even try to make them better. Clinical depression is an entirely different thing. I HATE when people (and I’m not saying you’re doing this) try to say “Just snap out of it.” They’d never tell a person in the midst of an epileptic seizure to “Just stop all that jerking around.” They’d never tell a diabetic to just stop goofing off an start producing insulin more consistently.

I’ve been a little constipated and I yawn a lot for no reason (weird side effect, that is) and I get one HELL of a head rush when I fire up a cigarette (I need to quit again, I suppose) but other than that they’re working really well for me.

Not to belittle your low moments, but like MLS said/implied, there’s a difference between sadness and depression. When I’m in the depths of a really bad depression, none of that works. I can hang out with my friends, hug my dog, watch a favorite comedy movie. So? Who cares? Nothing matters anyway. That’s how I would react, even if I didn’t want to.

The hardest thing is a friend who cares but doesn’t understand. A really good friend of mine is very concerned when I get depressed and has suffered situational depression, but doesn’t seem to get that I can’t just snap out of it. I can’t just tell myself, “self, there is no reason for you to be depressed at all, now is there? C’mon, chin up and enjoy life.” Whenever someone says anything along the lines of “you can feel better if you want to”, it makes me feel 100000x worse, because then it feels like they feel that it’s my fault I feel so horrible.

The second hardest thing is realizing your depressed. You’d think it’d be freaking obvious, wouldn’t you? You were feeling fine and now you feel like crap (to summarize into one word); gee, what could it be? But it doesn’t work like that*. Depression is such a stealthy disease; it jumps in and just feels so natural to you. You don’t remember that you felt fine last week. You just know you feel horrible today and that of course you’d feel horrible, why wouldn’t you? The scary thing is that after having numerous depressive episodes, when one comes back, it’s almost… comforting. It’s familiar, even though it’s a dark, chilly and strangling familiar.

Depression and creativity can go hand in hand; but I think of it more as creative types seem to suffer depression often**. I don’t think depression is limited to creative people or that all creative people suffer from depression. I also think there’s a point to where depression hinders creativity. I love creating things and sometimes I’m at my best when I’m depressed, but if the depression gets too much worse, then I lose all interest in creating anything at all and just give up.

  • for me, at least.
    ** Yes, I know I’d be blasted for just stating this if I was in GD. But I’m not there now, am I? Heh

That was very well put, zweisamkeit. Yes, I recall that when my depression was lifting, one day I had a strange feeling that something wasn’t quite right and I realized that I was “missing” my depression. I know one person whose wife left him after he got his long-standing depression treated. He literally was not the man she had married. (Both were better off, incidentally, and subsequently found others that suited them better. )

The “just get over it” mindset is SOOO not helpful. Do people really think that anyone WANTS to be that way? Jeez.

:: blush :: Why, thank you. I know exactly what you mean when you mentioned “missing” your depression. Another thing that plagued me was that I refused to think I was depressed. I wasn’t “good” enough to be depressed, if that makes sense. I know it sounds odd, but in my mind, I was just a huge loser who’s obviously just a stupid asshole, not really depressed (and yes, I know that that would be, y’know, a freaking huge neon sign that says HELLO, I AM DEPRESSED. But you just can’t tell that at the time). I still feel that way when I get depressed, often.

Honestly, there are some people (usually teenagers/20somethings) who say, “oh god, I’m sooooooooooooooooooo depressed! I hate myself so bad, no one loves me. :(:(:(:(:(”* but only want everyone around them to say, “OMG WE LOVE YOU, YOU’RE SOOOO AWESOME DON’T BE DEPRESSED PLEEEASE?” These are the same people who will magically feel fine a few hours later. In my experience, these are the people who help foster the “get over it” sentiment since they apparently can (even though the oddds are 99.999999% that they merely suffer from low self esteem and attention whoreism, not depression).

When you really have depression (again, IME), you don’t want to fucking talk about it. You don’t want people to know. Same with other disorders, but that’s for another thread. : sigh :

  • See a vast majority of Livejournal. :wink:

Exactly. And at the same time, adolescence is often a time when real and actual clinical depression and BP symptoms emerge. It is so very hard for a parent to tell when there is something really wrong, as opposed to ordinary teenage angst.

"Doctor, something’s wrong with my kid. He just mopes around all the time, he’s uncooperative and surly. All he wants to do is sit in his room and listen to awful music. "

“How old did you say he was?”

“Fourteen, why?”

“Hmmmmmm.”