[QUOTE=Pashnish Ewing]
So you are that brazen to directly compare the two*. One candidate wants to count votes where the opponent wasn’t even on the ballot. The other suggests how he thinks the superdelegates should cast their votes. Politically I can see how a Clinton supporter would want to equate the two, but I can’t imagine any objective observer would agree.
[/QUOTE]
Yes. Obama could have been on the ballot should he have chosen to.
But the Dems would be stupid to not count them, and we’ll get to see if Obama can rise above politics to make sure there’s a Dem in the White House.
Yeah, I know dudes say that the Fla state legislature knew what they were doing when they defied the Dems and moved their primary up. *Yes, indeed they did. *The state is slightly Democratic in registration, but the GOP has an edge in both Houses there. The GOP knew exactly what they were doing- try to make the Dems not count Fla. So if the Dems spurn FLA, a precious few Dem voters will feel slighted, and that’s all it takes to get the 4th Largest states Electors into the hands of the GOP.
You are being taken in by a rather clever plot by the GOP.
[QUOTE=Phlosphr]
I’d say after that debate he is a lock for prez.
As to the OP: Obama and his hype - you forget he’s a politician not a rockstar. I’m a thirty something, male professional - Obama inspires me to feel like I can someday trust my government again. He gave substantive answers tonight in the debate, and people who read into his words see his substance. I have not been duped, I don’t post nonsense, I am not a dumbed down version of John Q. Public. I’m a working American man who likes what he sees in Obama as a president.
We are not waylaying our best candidate. We are voting the best candidate - on all spherical fronts - into the presidency. This isn’t hype, this is initiative.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
I learned not to believe the promises of a candidate, even if they sound really good.
[/quote]
That’s a good step, to be sure. How about not believing lies about WMD’s or the economy or by Swiftboaters? Can we hope to see those developments next?
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
I learned not to believe the promises of a candidate, even if they sound really good. How about you?
[/QUOTE]
Now the next big step will be when you learn to stop believing the lies and misrepresentations of candidates.
Seems like that one still needs some time.
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
And, I know I’ll now hear cries of “but that won’t be Democratic! It will disenfranchise the people!” :rolleyes: Dudes- Obama’s side has happliy disenfranchised the entire fucking state of Florida, the 4th most populous state in the Union. So until he agrees that their “people” will be counted, I don’t want to hear any whines about “un-democratic”. Hillary and Obama are *both *Politicians, and they are both playing this game to win, not to be nice.
[/QUOTE]
Florida Democrats did that to themselves when they almost unaimously voted (along with Florida Republicans) to hold the primary before February 4th. Obama has not opposed new primaries in Florida (and frankly I think both Michigan and Florida should have new primaries and get half their delegation).
There are only 4 states so far where there has been greater republican turnout than Democratic turnout. Arizona and Utah (which voted overwhelmingly for McCain and Romney) and Michigan and Florida. Why do you think that is? Why do you think the Democratic primary turnout in Florida was lower than the Republican turnout when the opposite was true almost everywhere else?
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Anyway, in the current system, the smaller states gets a few more votes proportionally that their population would call for. And, Obama has won mostly small states, thus giving him and edge. Is that against “the will of the people”?
[/quote]
I don’t think anyone will ever convince you that Florida disenfranchised itself and that ven when presented with an opportunity to re-enfranchise itself with a new Democratic primary, it declines to do so. But I think bringing up the idea that Clinton’s win in big states like California hides the fact that Obama is ahead in the popular vote and NONE of those big states are in danger of swinging regardless of who the Democratic candidate is.
[QUOTE=Paper Pusher]
I don’t think anyone will ever convince you that Florida disenfranchised itself and that ven when presented with an opportunity to re-enfranchise itself with a new Democratic primary, it declines to do so. .
[/QUOTE]
It declines to do so as the State Leg is in the hands of the GOP, which clearly wants Obama to have to snub Fla voters, which will put Florida’s Electoral votes into the hands of McCain.
Don’t you guys have any idea of how this political game is played? :dubious:
Dude- I was a delegate. (For Henry “Scoop” Jackson, mind you, didn’t get me anywhere )
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
It declines to do so as the State Leg is in the hands of the GOP, which clearly wants Obama to have to snub Fla voters, which will put Florida’s Electoral votes into the hands of McCain.
Don’t you guys have any idea of how this political game is played? :dubious:
Dude- I was a delegate. (For Henry “Scoop” Jackson, mind you, didn’t get me anywhere )
[/QUOTE]
The Florida Democratic Party can hold its own primary (well its called a caucus if the party does it instead of the state). The state government has NO control over if and when the Florida Democratic Party holds its own primary re-election.
My mom was a pledged delegate (mostly for raising money, being really involved in politics and being utterly unelectable. She was basically a liaison between mainstream politicians and a minority Asian community, she delivered blocks of votes and bundles of checks and filled up tables at fundraisers), its basically an honorary position.
There is a big difference between asking for a primary re-election in Florida and suggesting that superdelegates should not overturn the popular vote - and - asking for the current Florida results to be respected and suggesting that superdelegates should vote against the popular vote.
[QUOTE=Mosier]
You gotta admit, for two people who aren’t apparent socks, the harmonized response was pretty funny.
[/QUOTE]
And appropriate to the nature of the fact-defying little taunt we were both replying to.
)