In addition to those in the OP, there is an entire other set of people worth pitting. These are people who worked for Weinstein and participated in setting up the victims. The New Yorker article said that many of them went with the victim to see him (which made the victim feel safe) and then were dismissed leaving the victim alone with this monster. And they did it more than once.
If they didn’t cooperate, Harvey would yell at them. If they went outside, they were covered by an NDA. (I’d like to see a jury enforce that.) That is the set of people who should never work again.
You are entirely full of shit. And you are claiming anyone who is a victim can then go out and perpetrate any kind of act and victimize others because they were once a victim. Is this why you are acting like a cowardly piece of shit, because some bully took your teddy bear away, you crying lame ass piece of garbage that wants to dish it out and then starts crying when you get back what you deserve? You have no idea what you are talking about and you’re acting like that crapbag Weinstein making excuses for his behavior. Perpetrators deserve scorn and you and your little hurt feelings are no excuse for your making up shit to satisfy your trolling. I can tell you’d be the first one to run and hide rather than help the weak defend themselves from the poor, then cry about how you were a victim when you are just afraid. Go ahead and throw rocks while hiding behind a tree. I didn’t blame any victims, you don’t even know what victim blaming is. If you weren’t afraid you’d take this to another forum instead of acting like a 13 year old miscreant. I’m fine duking it out with you here, or anywhere else. You’re lying about my words and you know it you shit-for-brains.
You were doing great,until the last line. What is your definition of periphery? Only groped, not raped? Girlfriend harassed and boyfriend didn’t punch him out? How about just saving your ‘Fuck them’ for the actual rapist’s?
Save your holier than thou scorn for when you are raped and you get to go through our system to try to find justice.
That is the set of people who should never work again. Weinstein’s facilitators, whether active or passive, are the ONLY ones mentioned who carry blame. Most would have suffered the same blackballing - a pitiful fate compared to the victims - but Tarantino was untouchable later in his career and still remained silent. (I do give him tiny, beanie-size props for finally admitting his culpability.)
How many thousands of victims choose silence over scorn and unbelief in any job you can name? Forget the ones who face giving up a career they fought long and hard for, what about workers in offices, factories, restaurants? Those jobs are often literally the difference between making ends meet and homelessness.
So, wait. This is actually a pitting of people who were victims of sexual assault who didn’t come out publicly about their experiences?
Well, fuck, they get it coming and going, don’t they? Society first fails them for not offering them an environment in which they can (1) avoid sexual assault or (2) effectively seek restitution for it, and now this pitting is shitting on them for choosing to do what they thought was best to put their own lives back together.
You’re blaming people who are already powerless in society for failing to take even more personal risks? Just read the threads on this board. You would have fucked them over again, excoriated them for not being angels or having perfect stories.
Sucks to be them, I guess.
They would have lost even what little they managed to salvage. How many of their critics have engaged in this level of self-sacrifice with such little chance of any success?
OP here, just saying that the victims and enablers and those in the know could have done more to stop HW much sooner. Off the top of my skull, 1) gone to the other board members of his company 2) anonymously gone to cops or Entertainment media 3) warned the up and comers (his type) about the dangers of being alone w/ HW 4) cut his freakin pecker off.
Plenty of people coming out and saying 1) I knew or 2) he victimized me. It just seems like a lot of these people didn’t want to rock the boat instead of having the backbone to try to do something. Somebody upstream lamented that not everybody is Rosa Parks. I guess not.
Rosa Parks was part of a national network of people who recruited her, supported her and helped her plan her protest and then publicize it. She didn’t just wake up one day and decide to be stubborn about giving up her seat as a matter of pure principle.
So some victims deserve our scorn. Please share your formula that determines which rape victims deserve our scorn.
Again, what is the magic formula you have come up with that tells us which rape victims deserve scorn and which don’t? You ‘merely said’ that some deserve scorn. Your insight into human behavior can dictate which VICTIM’S become abettors and perpetrators?
You sound off about how victims of Weinstein are somehow to blame for his continued rapist mentality. You expressed an opinion, and an opinion you say is based on what you know of human behavior. You can’t prove it, and you might even be wrong? Guess what Sherlock, you are wrong. You doubt you might be wrong, don’t doubt it, you are.
I quoted your blaming of Weinstein’s victims of aiding and abetting his actions, no, you did not blame his victims for being a victim, you just said it was their fault that other people got raped because they couldn’t stop him.
What kind of discourse do you want? The kind where everyone agree’s with you that Weinstein’s victims get to share in the guilt that Weinstein doesn’t feel? Shove it up your own ass. Better yet, let someone else do it and let us know how it feels to go to the police and complain that you didn’t really want that dick up your ass after all.
This is where your trolley really went off the rails. You get called out because you have an opinion that a rape victim should be blamed for any subsequent rapes that may be committed by their rapist. You don’t like the push-back, so you start calling people ‘cowardly’ and ‘13 year old miscreant’s’.
I haven’t been here long enough to know which ‘forum’ this needs to be taken to so you can ‘duke’ it out with anyone that thinks you are stupid for blaming a rape victim for not stopping their rapist from committing the crime again, and again. No one is lying about your words, I quoted them so the whole world has to read them again.
Shit-for-brains must be a phrase you are very used to hearing.
You really bring it home. We only read about the ‘important’ rapist’s and victims in the press. This shit happens everyday to people and it goes unpunished. It’s happened to me and I let it go so I could keep my job.
So when the next person comes forward and says they were victimized should we feel sympathy and sorrow for them or should we assume that they aided his behavior? Or when other people speak out about being victimized by other predators how should we react?
This is really simple. A victim who then becomes a perpetrator, knowingly, and for their own personal benefit. Unless you believe like Banquet Bear that once a victim you are free to commit any horrific act afterwards without blame. Do you believe that if Weinstein was once victimized himself that he is now blameless for these acts? That’s the defense to your argument. I have clearly stated that the victims who become aiders, abettors, and perpetrators themselves are not free from blame. Do you disagree with that? Our prisons are full of victims who turned to preying upon others, sometimes they may deserve a break because of they way they were victimize, but it’s not a free pass to victimize others after that as Banquet Bear has stated. According to him you are a victim blamer if you hold some who was once victimized accountable for their own bad acts. Bad acts done for self benefit without regard to others. That’s what he is saying, that once someone is a victim that they can never be blamed for anything they do.
And following up your point, it’s pretty damn hard to see how such a network was going to form in response to a mostly concealed problem such as Weinstein, when it was difficult enough to do so in response to the visible problem of Jim Crow.
I would assume that they are a victim. I don’t have to assume every such person is being completely honest and forthcoming about their own or anyone else’s behavior. But I know for the most part people don’t come forward in the kind of case we are talking about unless they have been victimized, and haven’t done anything they should be blamed for themselves. We’re less likely to hear from the people who decided after the fact to act selfishly and knowingly stand by silently to protect a personal gain and accept that others would suffer. But we have heard some who admit that they weren’t directly victimized who now regret their silence on the matter. Rose McGowan broke the terms of her NDA, I don’t know the details, I won’t judge anyone without the facts, but I think she probably regrets not speaking out sooner.
He’s not saying he blames the victims. I’ve talked with him about this at length and the point (maybe not clearly stated in the OP) is someone who gained power should have used it to fight back.
For example, when Gwynneth Paltrow started out on Shakespeare she may have been intimidated by Harvey’s power and prestige and felt powerless herself. Fast forward 10 years, she’s a major movie star and businesswoman with a lot less at stake by calling him out. So why not? Why keep it to herself once it’s clear her career/livelihood/self esteem won’t be ruined forever by revealing what happened?
He’s not blaming the victim AT ALL for what happened. He’s suggesting we should be blaming the ones who grew to have little to lose and who had a global audience for keeping quiet all this time. Big difference.
Your words are clear. You believe victimization provides immunity to prey on others. You’re too immature to address complicated issues, you want only easy targets to draw black and white lines and then lie to defend your position. You probably are laughing, it’s the distinctive behavior of the troll, start the trouble then giggle because you’re hidden and can’t be touched. You started this fight, I gave you the benefit of the doubt at first and you responded by continuing to make false characterizations. You’ll get only response in kind from me.
…this is a bald faced lie. Utter bullshit. Complete and utter shite.
This is called “moving the fucking goalposts.”
Anybody that commits a criminal act is not “blameless.”
But if you were referring to the likes of Weinstein when you said “Not all victims who were silent deserve scorn, but I’m sure some do” then you the parts of your body that are responsible for communication are suffering from a major malfunction.
Because there is no way in fuck anybody would think you were talking about Weinstein when you said that sentence.
For starters: whether or not Weinstein has ever been a victim of sexual harassment or sexual abuse or rape has **never **been a question that has been raised. You are probably the first person on the fucking planet who has even insinuated Weinstein is a victim here.
Secondly: acts are independent. Being a victim and being a perpetrator are two different things. If somebody is a perpetrator then you hold them accountable for those actions on their own. Having been a victim has no relevance to how we hold perpetrators accountable.
No. Thats a fucking strawman.
To be crystal clear: by “victims” you are talking about the likes of Harvey Fucking Weinstein? Are you fucking serious?
Stop with the bullshit you pillock.
That isn’t what I’m fucking saying. And you fucking well know it. You’ve had to resort to lying to get yourself out the fucking hole you’ve dug for yourself.
I think you are having an emotional response to my words without digesting their content.